Bicarbonate of Soda: The Secret Weapon for Runners with Tom Hollis
This week on Cook Eat Run, Charlie Watson welcomes back Tom Hollis, a registered sports nutritionist and seasoned runner, to explore the fascinating topic of bicarbonate of soda and its potential benefits for runners.
Understanding Bicarbonate of Soda
Tom breaks down the science behind bicarbonate of soda, explaining how it works within the body, particularly during high-intensity exercise. He discusses the relationship between lactate production, hydrogen ions, and muscle fatigue, shedding light on why this common kitchen ingredient is gaining traction among endurance athletes.
The Resurgence of Bicarb
Despite its long history in the running community, bicarbonate of soda is experiencing a resurgence thanks to new products that mitigate gastrointestinal issues often associated with its use. Tom explains how these innovations are making it more accessible for runners of all distances, from 5Ks to marathons.
Practical Application and Dosage
Charlie and Tom discuss practical tips for incorporating bicarbonate of soda into training routines, including recommended dosages and timing for optimal performance. Tom shares his personal experimentation with bicarb, detailing both the successes and challenges he faced during his trials.
Performance Insights
Listeners will gain insight into the potential performance benefits of bicarbonate supplementation, including its impact on perceived exertion and overall running efficiency. Tom shares his thoughts on how small improvements can add up over time and the importance of establishing a solid nutritional foundation first.
For more information on Tom’s coaching services and nutrition advice, visit his newly launched website at tomhollishealth.com and follow him on Instagram @tomhollisruns.
Thinking of trying bicarbonate of soda for your training? Don’t forget to save 10% on Morton's bicarb system at X Giles with code COOKEATRUN.
Got fuelling and nutrition questions? Episode topic suggestions? - find Charlie online @therunnerbeans / www.therunnerbeans.com
Grab a copy of Charlie’s book ‘Cook Eat Run’
The Cook Eat Run Podcast is sponsored by XMiles - the One Stop Nutrition Shop - use discount code COOKEATRUN for 10% off this month’s featured products at Xmiles.co.uk
This podcast is proudly produced by Decibelle Creative decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative
Transcript
>> Charlie: Welcome to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X Miles, hosted
Speaker:by me, Charlie Watson. I'm a runner, a mum, an
Speaker:NHS dietitian and author of the recipe
Speaker:book for runners Cook Eat Run. I'm also
Speaker:a 16 times marathoner and love nothing more than sharing what
Speaker:I've learned along the way through a lot of trial and error.
Speaker:Cook Eat Run is the go to podcast for running,
Speaker:nutrition training tips, marathon debriefs and, more.
Speaker:I'm here to answer all your questions and fuel you with the
Speaker:knowledge you'll need to run faster, further and actually just
Speaker:to have more fun on the run. So whether you're training for an
Speaker:ultra, want to improve your marathon PB or
Speaker:simply just get more out of your running, you're in the right
Speaker:place.
Speaker:Hello and welcome back to the Cook Eat Run podcast with
Speaker:xmiles. This week I'm chatting with Tom Hollis about
Speaker:bicarbonate of soda and running. Tom is a registered
Speaker:sports nutritionist, ICU dietitian and very
Speaker:fast runner. And he's been testing out the theory behind the
Speaker:bicarb BO and discusses why it's made a comeback
Speaker:when it could be useful and if it's worth you trying
Speaker:it. If you want to give Morton's bicarb
Speaker:system a try, you can save 10% at X miles with
Speaker:the code COOKEATRUN. That will save you 10%
Speaker:off your full purchase. So make sure you stocked up on your
Speaker:gels, electrolytes, recovery products and all your race day
Speaker:nutrition@, xmiles.co.uk.
Speaker:so, Tom, welcome back to the Cook Run podcast. Third
Speaker:time on the show, so I think you're the
Speaker:most repeated expert. I'm going to call
Speaker:you the expert because you are my go to guy.
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Oh, wow. Well, yeah, I wasn't aware of that, but
Speaker:very grateful to be invited back. Over
Speaker:quite a few years now we've been stretching this out, but yeah, third
Speaker:time.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, well, thanks for coming back.
Speaker:Today we are talking about bicarbonate or
Speaker:bicarbonate of soda for people
Speaker:training for marathons
Speaker:is what I think kind of most people use it for.
Speaker:But I mean, I am,
Speaker:genuinely starting kind of from scratch in
Speaker:terms of knowledge around it. So
Speaker:do you mind going kind of literally going from the
Speaker:very beginnings of what it is, why are people using
Speaker:it? Why were you interested in using
Speaker:it?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yes, absolutely. And I probably have to have
Speaker:full disclosure here at the start and say I've
Speaker:got slight imposter syndrome talking about this
Speaker:because whereas with other things that you've had
Speaker:me on the podcast for talking about things like
Speaker:plant based nutrition, general sports nutrition,
Speaker:marathon fueling, definitely with the Nitrates
Speaker:Pod podcast, I felt really
Speaker:knowledgeable. I've applied it with myself and my
Speaker:clients for a number of years and had a
Speaker:decent, decent grasp of the evidence
Speaker:and the practicalities with sodium
Speaker:bicarb. It's a much more recent thing for
Speaker:me. I definitely wouldn't call myself
Speaker:an expert, but I can hopefully bridge that
Speaker:gap between you know,
Speaker:the absolute beginners and the curious runners
Speaker:and the scientists potentially
Speaker:and give my insight into
Speaker:it. So, and I'm going to try and not
Speaker:make it too kind of biochemically and sciencey
Speaker:either, but it's actually quite, quite tricky with this
Speaker:subject. The first thing
Speaker:to say is it's not, it's not completely new at
Speaker:all. So although it's having a bit of a moment
Speaker:bicarb, in the running community it has been
Speaker:around for decades, so
Speaker:definitely the 80s and 90s. and
Speaker:yeah, but more recently it's having a bit of a moment and I will explain
Speaker:why. And the general principle for how
Speaker:it works and why it might be useful for
Speaker:running comes down to some extent
Speaker:to energy systems. So you've got
Speaker:your aerobic, aerobic, ah, energy
Speaker:system and then you've got your anaerobic energy
Speaker:systems. There are two that don't depend on
Speaker:oxygen, and the main one
Speaker:that the sodium bicarb is likely
Speaker:to be helpful for
Speaker:glycolysis, which is an
Speaker:anaerobic process. what happens
Speaker:with glycolysis is you produce something called
Speaker:lactate, which I think most people have heard of
Speaker:and most people think of as a bad thing.
Speaker:You don't want lactate. Now lactate in
Speaker:itself is not actually the
Speaker:problem. The problem is
Speaker:that when you accumulate lactate
Speaker:you're also accumulating hydrogen ions,
Speaker:H ions, also known as protons.
Speaker:And when they accumulate,
Speaker:that essentially is what determines an
Speaker:acidic environment. Okay,
Speaker:so why, why does that happen? Why, why do you
Speaker:get accumulation of lactate and H
Speaker:ions? It's because you are using more
Speaker:of your anaerobic energy system. and
Speaker:that will happen when exercise intensity
Speaker:increases. So when you're
Speaker:running or working out at a very easy intensity,
Speaker:you're going to be using vast majority
Speaker:your aerobic energy system.
Speaker:however, as your rate of
Speaker:perceived exertion or your heart rate or your,
Speaker:yeah essentially your intensity level
Speaker:increases. So will the proportion of your
Speaker:anaerobic energy system increase?
Speaker:There's a,
Speaker:there's some misinformation out there. Or some misunderstanding
Speaker:that you're either either using your aerobic or
Speaker:your energy or your anaerobic energy system
Speaker:at, any one time. But that's not the case. You're pretty much always
Speaker:using both energy systems, but just in
Speaker:very different proportions. So when you're working out
Speaker:an easy intensity, it's almost exclusively
Speaker:aerobic. And then when you're doing, you
Speaker:know, running a 400 metre race,
Speaker:for example, it would be dominant,
Speaker:anaerobic, and then in between that,
Speaker:it's more of a sliding scale.
Speaker:so, yeah, anyway, so these H plus
Speaker:ions, protons,
Speaker:accumulate when you are working
Speaker:at a very high intensity and, that
Speaker:produces an acidic environment in your
Speaker:muscles. and the problem can
Speaker:be, therefore, ah, or the theory is that, that acidic
Speaker:environment actually contributes to
Speaker:fatigue in your muscles, stops them working
Speaker:so efficiently. talking physiologically,
Speaker:what we think happens is it affects your
Speaker:enzymes that are involved in that
Speaker:glycolysis process. It stops them working efficiently.
Speaker:That's what's going on. So then
Speaker:that brings us to bicarb. So bicarb
Speaker:is an alkali, which is the opposite of an
Speaker:acid. And we have it naturally in our
Speaker:bodies, we have it naturally in our bloodstream.
Speaker:And, that will, in effect neutralise
Speaker:the ph, so the acidity
Speaker:of our blood when that becomes too
Speaker:acidic. And, the bodies are very good at doing that
Speaker:naturally. But when things get slightly out of
Speaker:control, we can add, additional bicarb, into
Speaker:the system. So,
Speaker:it's used medically, it's used clinically. For
Speaker:example, working on the icu, you'll
Speaker:see bicarb used for that purpose. And then
Speaker:from a running purpose, that's where the
Speaker:theory came along. So if you ingest
Speaker:sodium bicarbonate, then will
Speaker:that help to reduce or
Speaker:delay the accumulation of these hydrogen
Speaker:ions, reduce the acidity in the muscles,
Speaker:reduce the effect of fatigue when we're working at high
Speaker:intensities and therefore, improve
Speaker:performance. So that's kind of the
Speaker:physiology. I hope that wasn't too
Speaker:sciency.
Speaker:>> Charlie: No, I mean, it's certainly something that.
Speaker:I think that it went
Speaker:into a lot of depth and. But it was kind of
Speaker:broken down and I certainly tried to follow
Speaker:it. I saw actually my patient who
Speaker:was on it today, which was random, that
Speaker:I don't think I've seen a patient and, neuro wards on it for a while. So,
Speaker:But why do you think it's having a
Speaker:resurgence at the moment? If it was big, kind of
Speaker:70s, 80s?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yeah, good question. So the reason
Speaker:why it's been around for a while is
Speaker:because of that, that established theory that that
Speaker:physiology, there is a big drawback.
Speaker:So sodium bicarbonate, you know, it's the main
Speaker:ingredient in baking soda. for example, you can either have
Speaker:it baking soda or bike, or sodium bicarbonate. And
Speaker:it costs pennies. You know, it will be in a lot of kitchens
Speaker:of bakers, including my own because my wife
Speaker:is baker, and yeah, it's there and it costs
Speaker:absolute pennies. So there's nothing to stop
Speaker:you using that and having that as your
Speaker:sodium bicarb source that you ingest. The
Speaker:big problem or potential problem
Speaker:is it's always been associated with
Speaker:high risk of GI
Speaker:complications or symptoms. So that might
Speaker:be bloating, it might be nausea,
Speaker:it might be urgency or worse, diarrhoea.
Speaker:so this is the case with a lot of supplements.
Speaker:If you overdo them, you know,
Speaker:creatine, caffeine,
Speaker:nitrates and anything overdone
Speaker:in the short term often has GI complications.
Speaker:But none more so than for bicarb,
Speaker:particularly these ones. You know, if you're
Speaker:just using plain old bicarb, at the dosages that are
Speaker:required to get, to get a kind of
Speaker:evidence based effect on your performance.
Speaker:Which is why the level of
Speaker:use remained quite niche for you know,
Speaker:a couple of decades as far as I'm aware.
Speaker:Probably only used by
Speaker:very keen track runners
Speaker:that were doing kind of
Speaker:3K 3000 metres and,
Speaker:and down from that. And I would
Speaker:assume because even if you do get
Speaker:GI complications, the
Speaker:race is over very quickly and you can rush to the
Speaker:toilet basically. But
Speaker:now you're seeing more and more popularity
Speaker:for kind of 5k, 10k half marathon and
Speaker:like you said at the start, even marathon,
Speaker:because there are products that have come out from a
Speaker:couple of brands in particular and I don't know if you
Speaker:want to, or we will talk about specific brands,
Speaker:but they have developed ways to
Speaker:shield the bike up from
Speaker:the stomach to a certain extent so that
Speaker:the gi. Sorry, yeah, the risk of
Speaker:GI symptoms is much, much, much reduced
Speaker:significantly. So the drawback,
Speaker:the cost. So they no longer cost pennies, they cost
Speaker:pounds, many pounds. So it's that compromise
Speaker:between you know, getting the
Speaker:performance benefit but the
Speaker:potential cost financially but also the
Speaker:potential risk of GI symptoms and
Speaker:you know, where you are as an individual on that scale.
Speaker:So for me personally
Speaker:I had always also as a runner,
Speaker:both, sorry, as a runner and a coach and a sports
Speaker:dietitian, I'd always associated
Speaker:bicarb as the preserve of those
Speaker:track athletes that I mentioned earlier.
Speaker:As it's become more and more into the
Speaker:public consciousness, social media, ah, and
Speaker:literature, particularly, it suddenly dawned
Speaker:on me this is something that I need to trial
Speaker:myself. And I thought I'm not going to go
Speaker:straight for the big
Speaker:branded products. And I actually haven't even
Speaker:gone to them yet because I started
Speaker:trialling the simple stuff, the stuff that cost
Speaker:pennies. And I started at a low
Speaker:dose and have been or
Speaker:had been because I've been interrupted by
Speaker:injury recently, which is another story
Speaker:sadly. and I've been slowly
Speaker:working up my dose and
Speaker:monitoring my own symptoms
Speaker:and playing around with the timing before sessions
Speaker:as well. a couple of things that I did very wrong in
Speaker:those studies was number one, when I was quoting
Speaker:what I was doing on Instagram on one of the
Speaker:stories, I put my decimal
Speaker:place in the wrong place. So for
Speaker:anyone who was reading that and didn't read the correction story,
Speaker:they would have thought I took ten times as much as normal, which
Speaker:would have been dangerous. and the other thing
Speaker:was you should
Speaker:always try and keep things very
Speaker:separate when you're experimenting with new techniques
Speaker:or interventions. And I had had
Speaker:a slightly different kind of caffeine routine
Speaker:that one of those mornings. And like I say, that can have
Speaker:an impact on gi as well. You know, it
Speaker:wasn't the best experimental treatment technique, but it's
Speaker:been an interesting start for
Speaker:me. And I got a lot of interest on Instagram as well when
Speaker:I said I was doing this. And I think it just shows that a
Speaker:lot of people are, are interested in it.
Speaker:So that is, I think why it's,
Speaker:it's getting more interest is because of these products.
Speaker:There's a lot more people shouting about it on,
Speaker:on social media, which is not a bad thing.
Speaker:And there's, there's no reason why it
Speaker:needs to only be really short
Speaker:distance running because we
Speaker:will be using, we will be generating
Speaker:lactate and hydrogen ions in the
Speaker:second half of our
Speaker:marathons and half marathons and
Speaker:for a lot of our 10ks and 5ks once
Speaker:we go above our lactate threshold.
Speaker:So it does make sense that they'd be useful for these as
Speaker:well.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So I mean, obviously it's kind of
Speaker:anecdotal from you, but what are the kind
Speaker:of, is there a percentage
Speaker:improvement in performance or is it, does it
Speaker:reduce perceived exertion or is it kind of a
Speaker:combination of the two? Is there a number that has been
Speaker:Floated around the same way that you know, our super shoes are
Speaker:ah, we've get given this 4% number and those
Speaker:kind of things. Is there a, is there a number associated
Speaker:with it yet?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: From what I've read it's around about kind of
Speaker:1 to 1 to 2,
Speaker:maybe 1 to 3%.
Speaker:So small amounts and
Speaker:as always with these things,
Speaker:particularly from a nutrition perspective, if you can count
Speaker:this as nutrition, which it kind of is, there
Speaker:are, I often think don't worry about
Speaker:these tiny little sprinkles on the cake
Speaker:until you're getting the basics right
Speaker:of you know, fueling for the work,
Speaker:required, periodizing your nutrition well around your
Speaker:training, getting your recovery nutrition right,
Speaker:getting your carbohydrate intake right during
Speaker:hard sessions, long runs, and particularly races. All
Speaker:of that stuff is more important from a nutrition
Speaker:perspective. And these things, the,
Speaker:the bicarb, the nitrates, the
Speaker:caffeine. Yeah they might help
Speaker:in the same way that super shoes definitely do help for a lot of
Speaker:people but they in my opinion should be
Speaker:prioritised after the main stuff.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, I mean the performance benefits you get from fueling
Speaker:properly both in training
Speaker:and race day far outweigh that that
Speaker:1% in, in my experience and
Speaker:opinion. Yeah.
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: I actually love it when a client comes to me
Speaker:and I look at what they're doing at the
Speaker:moment and it's just such low hanging fruit for
Speaker:improvement in terms of just training,
Speaker:nutrition or particularly mid run nutrition.
Speaker:So I'm like great, you've just got
Speaker:gains here. So this is good.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:So what, what did you experience? I know
Speaker:obviously you've said it wasn't maybe the perfect
Speaker:study but what did you find through
Speaker:trialling your own kind of experiment at home?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: So I'm actually going to have a little look at
Speaker:a notes, notepad that I kept on
Speaker:my phone because I made some
Speaker:notes. So I started out Oh yeah, I should
Speaker:say so most of the evidence points
Speaker:towards a dose of
Speaker:0.3 grammes of
Speaker:bicarb per kilogramme of body weight as
Speaker:being the effective dose.
Speaker:So the branded products work on this sort of
Speaker:level. But 0.2 seems to be the absolute
Speaker:minimum but 0.3 recommended.
Speaker:So I worked
Speaker:up first of all I had 0.1
Speaker:grammes per kilogramme so
Speaker:I am I'm not far north of 60
Speaker:kilogrammes kilogrammes so I was using approximately
Speaker:0.1 grammes, was 6 grammes of
Speaker:bicarb and I first of all had that one hour
Speaker:before my training session and that was
Speaker:tolerated absolutely fine.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Sorry, this, this might sound really silly. Did you just mix it
Speaker:into water? Did you have it with, you
Speaker:know, was there any. You didn't bake it into
Speaker:anything?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: No, just water. and it did taste pretty
Speaker:salty even with that amount. Actually, I was
Speaker:quite surprised because obviously it's sodium
Speaker:bicarb. Sodium is the saltiness. And you. Do.
Speaker:You definitely do taste that. Ah, it was, it was like
Speaker:seawater.
Speaker:but having said that, actually some of the evidence
Speaker:out there does suggest that GI
Speaker:tolerance is improved if you take it with a carbohydrate
Speaker:source, which, again, these
Speaker:branded products, kind of back that up because that's what they
Speaker:do. So I started with that and that
Speaker:was fine. And I should say, I don't think I've fully
Speaker:answered your question before. So in terms of kind of
Speaker:perceived exertion. No, that's not my
Speaker:understanding. So it doesn't make it
Speaker:feel any easier. It
Speaker:just makes your performance that little bit
Speaker:better. So it might just be that your numbers in that
Speaker:training session or just that little bit better. And you
Speaker:only really notice when you're looking at the watch or looking
Speaker:at the distance covered or that sort of
Speaker:thing. I don't necessarily think it's,
Speaker:something that you perceive during it.
Speaker:so, yeah, but definitely when
Speaker:I was doing it, I was very conscious thinking about,
Speaker:okay, what's my stomach doing? What's my stomach doing? the
Speaker:next.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Do you think that heightened the anxiety around your
Speaker:run? They're like, yes. And maybe
Speaker:also could contribute for some people to GI issues
Speaker:just from that anxiety around. Am I going to get a
Speaker:stomach?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Like. Yeah, definitely,
Speaker:definitely. because we know there's such a
Speaker:big link between gut and brain, and that
Speaker:definitely applies running as well. Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, I was doing these before
Speaker:what I would call threshold sessions. So
Speaker:they weren't all out sprints, but they were sessions that I
Speaker:would have been doing anyway on a Tuesday morning,
Speaker:typically near my house. So if
Speaker:worse came to worse, I could get back to my house
Speaker:relatively quickly, near a kind coffee shop as
Speaker:well. And,
Speaker:there were sessions where I was going to be around
Speaker:about, my lactate threshold. Bear in
Speaker:mind, I don't measure my lactate because that's
Speaker:still pretty niche, these lactate monitors, although I think
Speaker:they might be more commonplace in years to come.
Speaker:But just going by heart rate, I know roughly what my
Speaker:heart rate ranges are in terms of my
Speaker:training, levels. So I
Speaker:was inching up, over a series of weeks
Speaker:to. Then I got to 0.2
Speaker:grammes per kilogramme. So around about 12 grammes of bio
Speaker:bicarb, which actually is a surprising amount when
Speaker:you're putting it in a teaspoon. and I was
Speaker:having that 90 minutes before
Speaker:and at that point I
Speaker:felt, although I didn't have any
Speaker:accident, luckily
Speaker:listeners, I felt that I was
Speaker:not far off and so I just felt like
Speaker:I'd kind of reached that point where I'd have to be pretty
Speaker:careful doing any more than that.
Speaker:so I didn't actually get up to the
Speaker:0.3 grammes per kilogramme
Speaker:evidence based dose which would have been 18 grammes
Speaker:approximately for me. But that had been the
Speaker:intention. but yeah, so who knows how
Speaker:that would have gone. And the reason I stopped, like I say, is because I've had an
Speaker:injury. Unfortunately for the, for the last month I've
Speaker:not been able to steam much running or injuries I should say because
Speaker:of an incident when I had a big fall during a
Speaker:race. But
Speaker:I would definitely be keen to
Speaker:continue my own experiment and and
Speaker:or trying the branded products because
Speaker:you know I put so much effort into my
Speaker:running that I am willing to spend
Speaker:money where there is evidence that it can
Speaker:improve performance and more, and more. I'm seeing this
Speaker:as a supplement that does have real, real
Speaker:performance benefit because you, you know, you,
Speaker:you perform better in the race itself.
Speaker:There's a lot of anecdotal stuff from,
Speaker:from people at the moment saying that it's helping them. But
Speaker:also there's an argument that it's helpful in training
Speaker:as well just because you're, you're just
Speaker:able to push yourself that little bit harder in
Speaker:training more consistently and those
Speaker:blocks just add up over time and might contribute
Speaker:kind of in the long term to just being a
Speaker:fitter, faster runner.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So you said you use them in the threshold sessions.
Speaker:Would you recommend people if they wanted to try
Speaker:it, maybe did the same or
Speaker:a speed workout, like track stuff.
Speaker:You mentioned that track runners in the past have used it. I
Speaker:know us are 200 repeats or
Speaker:longer are not quite the same, you know,
Speaker:speed or exertion levels as the 1 or
Speaker:400 metres. But where could it
Speaker:be helpful for people to use in training or to try if they are
Speaker:interested?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yeah, so I mean, I guess there's two things, isn't there? So you could
Speaker:try it, you could try it just for an easy run
Speaker:just to see if you, you know what it tastes
Speaker:like, how it mixes with water or something
Speaker:else. And how it goes down and does
Speaker:it sit well, even on an easy run, that could be
Speaker:your starter, But then, in order to truly test
Speaker:your tolerance of it, particularly
Speaker:you'd want to be pushing the intensity,
Speaker:and to truly test the actual effect
Speaker:of it. Then the shorter the reps, the
Speaker:better. really. So the more confident you are that
Speaker:you're going to be anaerobic, the better. you know, when
Speaker:you're doing 100 metre
Speaker:sprints you're actually mainly using
Speaker:a different energy system. So that would be
Speaker:something called your phosphocreatine system,
Speaker:which, although that is anaerobic as
Speaker:well, that's slightly different and wouldn't be
Speaker:expected to be impacted by
Speaker:by bike up. So I'd probably say
Speaker:200 metre repeats and
Speaker:up, towards Yeah, it's
Speaker:difficult to say because everyone's duration is going to
Speaker:be different. But if you have any idea
Speaker:what your heart rate thresholds are,
Speaker:for lactate threshold, then yeah,
Speaker:from 200 metres up to that would be a good
Speaker:thing. Good idea.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And actually doing it at the track or repeats outside your
Speaker:house is also probably quite reassuring, isn't
Speaker:it, that there's a bathroom nearby if,
Speaker:if that's. It hits the fan, like quite
Speaker:literally.
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: so you've mentioned that you think you're, you're going to, you know,
Speaker:when you return to running, fingers crossed soon
Speaker:going to try the branded products. The only one I actually know
Speaker:about is the Morton
Speaker:bicarb. You mentioned there's a couple of
Speaker:products on the market. What do you know about the
Speaker:differences or what other brands have brought their own products
Speaker:out?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yeah, so Morton is definitely the one that have brought
Speaker:this back to the mainstream and
Speaker:they are, a lot of elite athletes are using
Speaker:them. So the one that springs to mind most from
Speaker:a lot of their marketing and advertising is Keely
Speaker:Hodgkinson. She's championed this
Speaker:massively. which, which ah, is
Speaker:actually interesting that they've got a female athlete.
Speaker:In my eyes, in my eyes, that's kind of the figurehead of
Speaker:it. They may disagree, but, actually the
Speaker:evidence base, as ever in sports
Speaker:nutrition is less robust, ah, for
Speaker:females. And that's it, it could be that that's because
Speaker:there's less of an impact. There might be
Speaker:something to do with muscle fibre composition,
Speaker:but frankly it also comes down to the fact that females as
Speaker:always are underrepresented in in research,
Speaker:particularly in sports nutrition. But
Speaker:anyway, Keely Hodgkinson is the main
Speaker:figurehead. and yeah, Morton
Speaker:are definitely the brand that's brought
Speaker:this back to popularity. And they've got their
Speaker:hydrogel technology, which is what they use for their
Speaker:running gels anyway, to in
Speaker:theory improve GI tolerance
Speaker:of the carbohydrates going in from their gels.
Speaker:And it's the same principle here. So you mix the
Speaker:bicarb in with, I'm fairly sure it's a
Speaker:carbohydrate solution into like making up a little
Speaker:jelly or like a paste and then you take that before you'll
Speaker:run and the dose is based around that
Speaker:0.3 grammes per kilogramme, as far as
Speaker:I'm aware. So basically when you're ordering it, you put
Speaker:in what your body weight is and it will then give you
Speaker:your appropriate amount to take.
Speaker:so that's, that's number one. but yeah,
Speaker:you know, it's not inexpensive so
Speaker:you would want to be using that, you know, really thinking about
Speaker:when would be the most appropriate training sessions and
Speaker:races to use that.
Speaker:and then another one that I've become more aware of
Speaker:recently is a company, I don't know,
Speaker:I don't know how you say it, but it's bicarb with two
Speaker:Rs so B I, C, A R, R
Speaker:B, and I've seen that a lot more on social media.
Speaker:It's a company that's set up
Speaker:by a couple of high level recreational
Speaker:runners, or sub elite runners, I'm not entirely
Speaker:sure. And it's essentially the
Speaker:same as far as I'm aware. It's a
Speaker:hydrogel type technology that
Speaker:shields the bicarb from the gut to massively
Speaker:reduce your risk of GI symptoms.
Speaker:and it is a bit more
Speaker:affordable. it's obviously still a lot more than
Speaker:the pennies that it costs to get the stuff,
Speaker:the kitchen version, but it might be a bit
Speaker:more accessible potentially. so those are the
Speaker:two that I'm aware of. It may well
Speaker:be that there are more
Speaker:competitors coming because I really feel
Speaker:like having looked at the evidence and read
Speaker:and listened to more about this, I feel like
Speaker:it's going to have a real moment soon and
Speaker:explode. So it might be that there's more coming.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Interesting. Well, we'll look out for it.
Speaker:So you said you were taking
Speaker:things like sort of 60 to 90 minutes before. Is there a
Speaker:recommended time frame to
Speaker:consume this before your run?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yeah, it seems to be kind
Speaker:of one to two hours free.
Speaker:and there Also seems to
Speaker:be some benefit from
Speaker:chronic consumption.
Speaker:So long term, in other words.
Speaker:So there's some kind of cumulative
Speaker:effect, which is not something obviously that
Speaker:I've tried yet, but there seems to be some
Speaker:evidence around that. But from what I've read, it
Speaker:seems to be between about an hour and two
Speaker:hours before.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And I guess it's going to be a kind of individual base in the same
Speaker:way that eating your breakfast before a run is so
Speaker:individual, kind of dependent on how your
Speaker:stomach handles it and again, kind of
Speaker:training your stomach to get used to taking the bicarb
Speaker:and that kind of thing.
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yeah, absolutely. You have to also
Speaker:factor in that if you are taking
Speaker:this chronically or quite, consistently,
Speaker:that is a lot of sodium that you're taking,
Speaker:which, you know, as runners, we sweat a lot, so
Speaker:we lose sodium a lot. So we do have
Speaker:much, much higher requirements than the general
Speaker:population. But at the same time, you
Speaker:do need to exercise a little bit of caution if you're
Speaker:consciously drinking these huge
Speaker:amounts of basically strong
Speaker:seawater is what it tastes like.
Speaker:so, yeah, that's just something to bear in mind. But, yeah, like you
Speaker:say, individual, it needs a bit of
Speaker:experimentation. It also depends on
Speaker:timing. How much time do you have? a lot of people do their
Speaker:sessions early in the morning. I
Speaker:do typically, I much prefer getting my
Speaker:exercise, particularly my hard sessions, done
Speaker:early in the morning. So how long have you actually
Speaker:got to get up, take this stuff, and, and leave before you get out?
Speaker:But, you know, the same would apply to fueling as well. You
Speaker:wouldn't want to be doing hard sessions in a fasted
Speaker:state. So it's that same sort of
Speaker:conversation, particularly if
Speaker:you accept that taking the bicarb alongside
Speaker:carbohydrate helps with, from the GI perspective
Speaker:anyway.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So kind of just circling back to the sodium intake, could this
Speaker:be part of a solution for very salty sweaters or
Speaker:people that struggle to get enough sodium
Speaker:in during their runs?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yes, potentially it could.
Speaker:but just keep an eye on that dose because it
Speaker:is a very, very high amount of sodium.
Speaker:and again, kind of it is
Speaker:anecdotal, but I heard someone talking
Speaker:about how they had taken it
Speaker:chronically or at least, you
Speaker:know, quite consistently, and they felt
Speaker:that it was contributing to reduced
Speaker:cramp, and they thought, or at least
Speaker:correlated with, they wondered whether the
Speaker:high sodium might have been a contributing
Speaker:factor to that. I'm absolutely not,
Speaker:like, recommending this as a blanket recommendation because there's
Speaker:risks there for sure, but it could be, and it Might just
Speaker:be that we find out more about this stuff in years to come.
Speaker:>> Charlie: I, mean that's all of my questions, but have you got any kind of
Speaker:final statements or any suggestions or anything you just
Speaker:want to kind of
Speaker:advise listeners of? When it comes to
Speaker:bicarb, I think.
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: We'Ve covered quite a lot and I think we've probably
Speaker:exhausted my expertise in the area
Speaker:actually. m. Yeah, this has been quite a
Speaker:steep learning curve for me as well because
Speaker:I'm interested in it definitely from
Speaker:my own perspective as a runner that takes his
Speaker:running really seriously, but also on behalf of my
Speaker:coaching clients and my, and my running
Speaker:nutrition clients. So I
Speaker:think that is literally about the capacity of what I know at the
Speaker:moment. But I do really feel like
Speaker:it's a very interesting area and it's no longer
Speaker:ah, just the preserve of niche
Speaker:track athletes. This is
Speaker:something for the marathon now. So, yeah, I'm
Speaker:all ears. And I think there are lots of other people that are as
Speaker:well.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So will you be implementing this when you're back
Speaker:running for kind of marathon build? I think fingers
Speaker:crossed. London Marathon.
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yeah, I think I will, I think I will. I've got a
Speaker:busy race calendar all being well over the next few
Speaker:months and yes, I think I
Speaker:will. And then the jury's out as to whether I continue
Speaker:with the cheap version or whether
Speaker:I, I, I think I will at least try
Speaker:all the branded ones. and then I'll see what, what
Speaker:works for me.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Great. Well thank you so much. Tom. Where can people find you if they want
Speaker:to learn more about your coaching, Both
Speaker:kind of run coaching and nutrition?
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Well, I actually have a brand new website which I'm
Speaker:proud to launch. So this is quite good timing because I literally
Speaker:launched it about two days ago. So it's the same
Speaker:website URL as it used to be, but it's just
Speaker:looking a lot slicker these days. So it's tomhollish
Speaker:health.com so there's all
Speaker:details of packages and services there. And my
Speaker:main social media is Instagram and that's
Speaker:is Tom Hollisruns.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Perfect. I mean yeah, you had a bit of a rebrand quite recently
Speaker:of the. From Plant Runner to
Speaker:Tom Hollis. I love it.
Speaker:>> Tom Hollis: Yeah, it was as my friends
Speaker:kind of said Plant Runner made me
Speaker:sound like the world's worst
Speaker:superhero. So I decided to switch to the
Speaker:slightly more generic Tom Hollis runs in. It
Speaker:was also actually it was a considered choice because although
Speaker:I'm still a big advocate of plant based nutrition,
Speaker:I didn't want people to think that I only work with
Speaker:plant based runners or clients and
Speaker:Yeah, so I didn't want it to be misleading.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Great. Well I will leave all the links below and
Speaker:also try and leave some links to some of the research
Speaker:papers so that people can do a bit more delving
Speaker:into this topic. The if you're currently
Speaker:in training for a spring marathon, don't forget to make sure the
Speaker:running nutrition products are fully stocked and save
Speaker:10% off site wide at
Speaker:xmiles.co.uk. make sure to
Speaker:tune in next week as we deep dive into creatine. And
Speaker:please leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your
Speaker:podcasts.
Speaker:Thank you so much for listening to Cook Run, the podcast
Speaker:hosted by me, Charlie Watson, sponsored by by X Miles.
Speaker:They are your one stop nutrition shop.
Speaker:Come and find me on social media hereunner beans
Speaker:and tell me what you're loving on the podcast. Send me all of your
Speaker:questions and suggestions for future episodes.
Speaker:All the links you need to connect with me are in the show notes.
Speaker:Lastly, please rate the Cook Run podcast.
Speaker:It really means a lot to see your ratings and reviews.
Speaker:Obviously the five star ones go down very well,
Speaker:but please let me know what you think. It really does make a
Speaker:massive difference as it helps more people discover us and join our
Speaker:amazing running community.
Speaker:See you back here for another episode soon. In the meantime,
Speaker:happy running and don't forget to fuel yourself.
Speaker:Bye.
