Run Stronger: A Guide to Strength Training for Runners, with Emma Kirk-Odunubi
This week Charlie Watson welcomes Emma Kirk Odunubi, a running coach and sports scientist, to discuss the often-overlooked yet crucial topic of strength training for runners.
The Importance of Strength Training
As Charlie reflects on her own neglect of strength training, Emma shares her journey from injury-prone cardio enthusiast to a strong, injury-free runner. They delve into the significance of incorporating strength training into a runner's routine, particularly as they age and set ambitious running goals.
Understanding the Basics
Emma breaks down the essentials of strength training, explaining why it's vital for injury prevention and improving performance. She emphasises the importance of single-leg exercises, as runners predominantly land on one leg at a time, making stability and strength crucial for efficient running.
Practical Tips for Integrating Strength
Discover how to effectively incorporate strength training into your existing running schedule. Emma provides actionable advice on habit stacking and how to replace one run with a strength session without compromising your training. She also discusses the ideal timing for strength workouts relative to running sessions.
Nutrition for Strength Training
Charlie and Emma discuss the nutritional aspects of strength training, highlighting the importance of proper fuelling before and after workouts. Emma shares her insights on the necessity of protein for muscle recovery and the role of carbohydrates to sustain energy during longer training sessions.
Long-Term Benefits
As they wrap up, Emma elucidates the long-term benefits of strength training for runners, including improved efficiency, faster times, and enhanced overall fitness. They also touch on the importance of strength training for women over 30, addressing misconceptions and encouraging a shift in mindset towards weightlifting.
For more insights and to connect with Emma, visit her website at emmakirkodanuobie.com or follow her on Instagram @emmakirkyo.
Got fuelling and nutrition questions? Episode topic suggestions? - find Charlie online @therunnerbeans / www.therunnerbeans.com
Grab a copy of Charlie’s book ‘Cook Eat Run’
The Cook Eat Run Podcast is sponsored by XMiles - the One Stop Nutrition Shop - use discount code COOKEATRUN for 10% off this month’s featured products at Xmiles.co.uk
This podcast is proudly produced by Decibelle Creative decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative
Transcript
>> Charlie: Welcome to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X Miles, hosted
Speaker:by me, Charlie Watson. I'm a runner, a mum, an
Speaker:NHS dietitian and author of the recipe
Speaker:book for runners, Cook Eat Run. I'm also
Speaker:a 16 times marathoner and love nothing more than sharing what
Speaker:I've learned along the way through a lot.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Of trial and error.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Cook Eat Run is the go to podcast for running,
Speaker:nutrition training tips, marathon debriefs and,
Speaker:more. I'm here to answer all your questions and fuel
Speaker:you with the knowledge you'll need to run faster, further,
Speaker:and actually just to have more fun on the run. So whether
Speaker:you're training for an ultra, want to improve your marathon
Speaker:pb or.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Simply just get more out of your.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Running, you're in the right place.
Speaker:Hello and m. Welcome back to the Cook Eat Run podcast with XMiles
Speaker:After a bit of a January hiatus, we are back with a new
Speaker:episode about strength training for runners. I have to
Speaker:admit that this is the area of training that I have neglected for years,
Speaker:but as I enter my mid-30s, it's not something I can get away with
Speaker:anymore. And as someone who has big goals in my running, it
Speaker:feels like an easy win to add in without needing to add
Speaker:mileage. Today I'm chatting with Emma Kirk
Speaker:Odunubi. Emma is a running coach, sports
Speaker:scientist plus expert in running, footwear, and gait
Speaker:analysis. This week I want to talk to you
Speaker:about scratch labs, which I'm hoping we can do a deep dive
Speaker:on the brand on a future episode as I don't feel like they're as well
Speaker:known in the UK as the us. They make a range of
Speaker:sports nutrition products from hydration and recovery mixes,
Speaker:high carb drinks, energy bars and my favourite, energy
Speaker:chews that genuinely taste like sweets. If
Speaker:you want to give scratch labs a try, you can save 10% off the full
Speaker:range at, xmiles.com with the code
Speaker:COOKEATRUN.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So, Emma, thank you so much for joining me today. I
Speaker:know that you are a big runner, but
Speaker:equally you are very passionate about
Speaker:strength training and, strength training for runners
Speaker:in particular. Why is it that
Speaker:you're so kind of keen on sharing
Speaker:this and why do you think it's so important that more runners are doing
Speaker:strength training?
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: So a big background for me was actually that I
Speaker:used to get really injured, like really injured. I
Speaker:was that person that, you know, when I got into the fitness scene,
Speaker:probably through negative habits,
Speaker:kind of my, my, what's the word? Go to
Speaker:in terms of getting out of my head, was to train.
Speaker:And I was that cardio bunny gal that was like, great. I'm
Speaker:just gonna do five Barry's classes a week and I'm just gonna smash myself
Speaker:in the cardio and then I'm gonna run and then I'm gonna train all those
Speaker:things. And I just went kind of hell for leather. And
Speaker:you name the injury. Like, with
Speaker:kind of my athletic background as well, I've kind of had it. So
Speaker:whether it's Achilles, shins, hip
Speaker:problems, quad, strain it back, like, you
Speaker:name the injury, I probably had it. So it got to a point where
Speaker:I was like, you've one sports
Speaker:scientist, so you know how to avoid these
Speaker:things. Two, you have so much
Speaker:background in what I did for work back then, which was
Speaker:analysing runners daily to look at their injuries and
Speaker:how their gait was affecting their injury.
Speaker:And I was like, right, we need to just
Speaker:rein this in. So part of it, don't get me wrong, was very much
Speaker:going, I know strength works, but also a big part for
Speaker:me personally was actually getting over that mental hill
Speaker:and being like, no, I deserve to be strong. I
Speaker:deserve to not get injured. I deserve to, you know, be able
Speaker:to carry on the thing that I love of running without
Speaker:having that injury happen. So it was very much a, I
Speaker:knew the strength was a big portion of it, but
Speaker:actually sounds weird to say, but tuning into
Speaker:my own body and being like, Emma, you know this.
Speaker:So let's address that.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, Like, I do as I say rather than do as
Speaker:I do for kind of. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And I think that's the case for.
Speaker:>> Charlie: A lot of people. You're like, you know, especially if you speak to
Speaker:new runners or, I speak to people about fueling. And then I think
Speaker:I'm actually, did I fuel that
Speaker:run well. And again, like you say, you have a
Speaker:sports science background, I've got a nutrition background, but we don't always get it
Speaker:right. And it's sometimes hard to sit down and look
Speaker:at the facts, which are, you're not doing everything you can
Speaker:do to, improve your running but also protect your body.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah, exactly. And it was, I say, a
Speaker:kind of a big pivotal moment for me was I
Speaker:got a suspected labral tear
Speaker:in my hip and I couldn't walk properly for three weeks, was
Speaker:in agony, could barely run. and
Speaker:I was like, right, I really need to address this. So I worked
Speaker:with, Jocelyn Thompson Rule, the legend, the wonderful woman
Speaker:that is her, amazing. And
Speaker:she was just incredible. And she was like, look, I
Speaker:know, you know, but I'M gonna tell you, this is how it's
Speaker:gonna go. And she kind of said, we are doing
Speaker:strength. This is how many times you're doing it. You're only running this
Speaker:time. And even the early days, I'll be honest, I was like,
Speaker:doing secret stuff because I was like, no, I miss. And
Speaker:she was like, emma, what did you do this week? Did you follow the plan?
Speaker:And it was that accountability person for me
Speaker:to be like, no, if you. If you're serious
Speaker:about getting your body to do the thing you love, we have
Speaker:to pull back. And it took, as I say, working
Speaker:her, with her, who. She's just a wonderful human
Speaker:being, to get me to go, okay, no, I need to wake up and smell
Speaker:the coffee and actually go. I do want to be able to run
Speaker:again because this injury could have prevented me from running again.
Speaker:I may have needed surgery, all these other things. And with her,
Speaker:help and doing the strength work, working with an osteo
Speaker:as well, I was able, touch wood. I haven't had a
Speaker:serious injury since then. So that was
Speaker:2018, and I was able to complete London Marathon, which was my
Speaker:goal at the end of that kind of. I think it was probably eight to nine
Speaker:month period. So it's awful to say,
Speaker:but sometimes, you know, it can take a serious
Speaker:issue to really make you go, hang on a
Speaker:minute, I need to take a step back, let me
Speaker:reassess and really dial in.
Speaker:>> Charlie: I think it's interesting what you say, like, the stepping
Speaker:back, because I think for so many runners, they don't want to give
Speaker:up any of their runs, but they're like, how am I supposed to
Speaker:fit strength training in? So what's
Speaker:your kind of. What's your advice, your experience for people that
Speaker:maybe run five times a week, or
Speaker:they are just, you know, they're running every day that they've got
Speaker:availability to exercise? What kind of
Speaker:advice would you give to those people?
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: So I would say, one, ask yourself,
Speaker:right, how. How actually am I in this moment? How
Speaker:is my body? Are you teetering or
Speaker:with a little niggle that's kind of there that you're just sort of being like, yeah,
Speaker:it's okay if I only go up to 5k? Like, are
Speaker:you dealing with something? If you are dealing with something,
Speaker:running will always be there for you when you get
Speaker:back to good health. So think about if you're running
Speaker:four times a week, you can 100% afford
Speaker:to take one of those runs out and put in a strength session.
Speaker:You can 100% add
Speaker:in 10 minutes of banded work, instead of
Speaker:doing a 40 minute run, do a 30 minute run and add
Speaker:in some banded work or dumbbell work. If you're in the gym,
Speaker:just literally hitting the key target areas
Speaker:of our single leg, work, our glutes, all of those
Speaker:areas so that there's ways you
Speaker:can slot it in without. Have to be like, I did a strength
Speaker:session, like I did some strength before I ran
Speaker:or those kind of things, or I ran and then I did
Speaker:a 10, 15 minute circuit focusing on my key areas.
Speaker:So it's almost, you know, it's like habit
Speaker:stacking I talk about. Right. So you're like, you get to do the run,
Speaker:but as long as you do X, Y and Z before or
Speaker:you do the run, but you must do X, Y and Z before you get to leave
Speaker:and go back home. Like so figuring out
Speaker:ways to build it into your routine
Speaker:is going to help massively.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So, yeah, you kind of said the before or
Speaker:after. Is there a better time to do it?
Speaker:If you are going to be doing this habit stacking, is there something that you
Speaker:would recommend, like do you get in the gym or you
Speaker:are, at home, do you start with the strength or is it more
Speaker:important that you get it done and however that
Speaker:works best for you? Kind of
Speaker:something is better than nothing.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah, agree. And, you know, the only way where I would say maybe
Speaker:flip it is if you are seriously training for something. So
Speaker:for example, a lot of coaches will say, you know, if you are training
Speaker:for an event and that run is the focus, start with the
Speaker:run and then you do the strength. Slightly fatigued,
Speaker:depending on what that session is.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Right.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: If you're going to have a day where you're going to do some heavy strength, work with
Speaker:it, always pair it with like a light run or an easy run
Speaker:and then still do the strength after it. But
Speaker:otherwise if you're like, I'm only going to have 30
Speaker:minutes. I know that it's 6pm and
Speaker:it's busy as anything in the gym. I know if I can get in and get on
Speaker:that machine, I can do two or three sets and then be
Speaker:off of it. Great. Because something is better than nothing.
Speaker:So, yeah, I would say just
Speaker:assessing the time frame you have available because I know we're all
Speaker:very busy people. If you go right, I have 40
Speaker:minutes, I'm going to let myself run for at least 30 of
Speaker:those. Great. What do I need to tick off as
Speaker:my key things to get done in 10 minutes?
Speaker:>> Charlie: And what would you say for someone who has no idea what
Speaker:they're doing. What are the key things? So you said single leg.
Speaker:What does that actually kind of mean?
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah. So single leg work, if you think about it, the biggest thing I
Speaker:say to people is when you run, you don't land
Speaker:on both legs at the same time. I mean. No, you
Speaker:don't. You'd be doing it wrong if that was the case. Right. So
Speaker:we always land on one leg at a time. And
Speaker:that lower leg can absorb anywhere between
Speaker:three to up to certain muscle groups, 11 times your
Speaker:body weight as it goes through the ground. So if
Speaker:you're not able to balance on one
Speaker:leg, you're not able to lunge forwards on
Speaker:one leg without it being very
Speaker:challenging. Think about adding
Speaker:10 times your body weight through that leg.
Speaker:We want to make sure that we can do that and do that
Speaker:safely. And that's where the strength and the idea
Speaker:behind single leg work comes from. Because that body has to
Speaker:stabilise you in your main weight bearing
Speaker:point for a period of time and over, you know, a
Speaker:5K, 5,000 steps. It doesn't sound like a
Speaker:lot if you're doing it half a second at a time, but
Speaker:half a second at a time for 30 minutes really,
Speaker:really does add up. So that's why we talk very much more
Speaker:about single leg versus what they call
Speaker:unilateral versus bilateral, which is both
Speaker:sides. and don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean your
Speaker:things like your squats and those kind of things aren't good.
Speaker:They're phenomenal as well. But with runners specifically,
Speaker:we always want to dial in and do at least one
Speaker:or two exercises that very much focus on that single
Speaker:side.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So can you give me some examples if someone's looking at,
Speaker:like. Right, let me just add in two single leg
Speaker:exercises at the end of my workout tomorrow.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah. So two. Just to really nail it on the head very
Speaker:easily, you would look at split squats variation. So a
Speaker:lunge variation. Now, that could be a lunge position where you
Speaker:elevate the front foot. That could be a lunge position where you
Speaker:elevate the back foot. That could be just a simple position
Speaker:on the ground with two dumbbells in hand, or one dumbbell,
Speaker:totally. Again, your choice. And basically moving up
Speaker:and down in that movement pattern. as runners
Speaker:dream world, we want to go fairly heavy
Speaker:for six to eight reps. That's. That's usually the rep
Speaker:range that I start with. People, don't get me wrong, there are some
Speaker:muscle groups that would look to go slightly Higher. So areas
Speaker:like your cast, for example, you might want to build up
Speaker:10, 15 reps, etc. But
Speaker:most ranges for big muscle groups, I would say six to
Speaker:eight to build that, that strength. And then another
Speaker:exercise would be a Romanian deadlift. So single
Speaker:leg side targeting, kind of the back of the hamstrings,
Speaker:where we're hinging forwards and standing back up again,
Speaker:again, targeting that big muscle group there to really,
Speaker:you know, strengthen.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So you've talked quite a lot, you know, in terms about the
Speaker:actual, the weights there. I
Speaker:see a lot of people on Instagram being like, body weight
Speaker:exercise for runners. Is
Speaker:that helpful? Is it.
Speaker:Should we be, you know, is that good enough?
Speaker:Or is it like, actually, if we're going to be doing this,
Speaker:even if you're doing it at home, get a heavy dumbbell. And
Speaker:that's better than doing bodyweight. Where do you
Speaker:kind of. You fall with that?
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: It's. For me, I always, as a coach,
Speaker:I always do person to person. Right. So if you have never stepped your foot
Speaker:or done any sort of strength work
Speaker:whatsoever, we always need to harness and control our body
Speaker:weight first. So if you have never done
Speaker:a split squat, a set of split squats before
Speaker:on both legs. Great, let's start body weight.
Speaker:Let's start there. what we can do first off is from body
Speaker:weight, you can add a pause at the bottom to progress.
Speaker:That we can add in what we call a tempo.
Speaker:So you can move down into that position for three to four
Speaker:counts and then come up out of it for three
Speaker:counts. So we can add tension in other ways with body
Speaker:weight. So if you are completely new or
Speaker:that muscle group is weak, you're recovering from an injury.
Speaker:for me, when I, one of my very first injuries I had was very
Speaker:shin splints, which I know is a very common one for a lot of
Speaker:people. And all I was doing was body weight, calf
Speaker:work, because my muscles were so weak and
Speaker:tight that putting weight on them.
Speaker:I couldn't do 15 calf raises on one leg. Like, it
Speaker:wasn't even a plausibility, let alone adding a weight.
Speaker:Right. So it's those learning where
Speaker:you're at, and it's why I bang on about it all the time. But, like,
Speaker:knowing your body is really, really powerful. So if
Speaker:you're like, hey, I know I can do 10 calf
Speaker:raises with no weight. Amazing. Yeah, order that one
Speaker:dumbbell and then we can start to build things up. And maybe it
Speaker:means you don't do the 10. You now drop down to six because you've got
Speaker:that heavier weight, so things like that. So, yeah, I'd say I definitely
Speaker:don't disregard body weight because it can very. It can be used very
Speaker:well to a lot of advantage. But
Speaker:there's definitely elements where, yes, you can then
Speaker:seek out weights and add those on once you're more competent
Speaker:and stronger in the movements.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So those are kind of the, like. Right. If you've got
Speaker:nothing, if you're starting from the very beginning
Speaker:or if you, you know, this is like better than
Speaker:nothing. What's the ideal? I know it's going to be
Speaker:different for everybody, and based on how much time they
Speaker:have, what their experience is. But say people running
Speaker:London Marathon or a spring
Speaker:marathon, and that's their goal.
Speaker:What would you look at as a running coach, Strength
Speaker:coach, a training plan, roughly
Speaker:as they're like, here's what we should be kind of
Speaker:targeting.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah. So in terms of a
Speaker:week breakdown, one thing I will definitely add, if runners don't
Speaker:have it make the adjustment is at least
Speaker:one full rest day. Now, I don't mean lying down
Speaker:rest day. I mean a rest day where maybe you're walking, you're
Speaker:doing something else. So I just have to add that in
Speaker:because no matter if you're like, oh, I just want to make sure I get things
Speaker:in, don't sacrifice a rest day
Speaker:to get extra work in. So always make sure you've
Speaker:got that. And then on top of that, dependent on where you are. So what
Speaker:are we. We're about. Yeah, just gone 12 weeks out.
Speaker:So I would still lead for someone coming to me being like, hey,
Speaker:I'm running, let's say London. Let's just use that. This next
Speaker:12 weeks, I would still have them doing at least two big
Speaker:strength sessions a week. So one dependent on the person.
Speaker:Some people like to do full body both days. I like to,
Speaker:for some people focus more upper and then
Speaker:lower. so that, you know, sometimes we
Speaker:look to put the lower session either before the long run.
Speaker:If you want to try your legs a bit more fatigued for some of your longer
Speaker:miles further down, or if you're feeling. If
Speaker:you're like, I'm new to this. We put the lower stuff
Speaker:at the start of the week and then almost put your
Speaker:upper body core work towards the end so your body's not
Speaker:as fatigued going into that long run. so I would
Speaker:always try and target 2, 2 strength
Speaker:sessions in terms of runs.
Speaker:There's a lot of questions out there about it, but if your
Speaker:body is really fatiguing and you're really struggling
Speaker:with the number of runs you're doing. Maybe it's three, maybe it's four.
Speaker:I would then suggest taking one of those runs
Speaker:onto a different piece of kit. Now, that piece of kit could be
Speaker:a swim, that piece of kit could be a cross trainer,
Speaker:it could be a bike. But I would say
Speaker:you still get that cardio response
Speaker:without having to do the run. So that will
Speaker:kind of be, what, a week? I would suggest
Speaker:two to four runs dependent on the runner. Two
Speaker:definitive strength sessions most definitely. And then
Speaker:obviously you've got your rest day in there as a
Speaker:bare minimum. in terms of adding to
Speaker:strength, I would say if you're not a total
Speaker:beginner and you have done strength work before, start
Speaker:to look at adding pauses, as I say, like
Speaker:we talked about with the body weight, adding in the pauses, adding
Speaker:in plyometric work. So plyometric work,
Speaker:jumping, bounding, things like pogo
Speaker:jumps. one thing I do before every run, even if
Speaker:I've literally got a minute to warm up, is I will
Speaker:do ten double footed POGOs. So just jumping up, and down the
Speaker:spot. 10 single leg Pogos and then
Speaker:10 single leg Pogos. 1. It helps to switch on those
Speaker:calves and feet and it also just brings an awareness to my body.
Speaker:Hey, how do I feel when I'm jumping? Is there anything in my knees,
Speaker:my hips that don't feel great? And
Speaker:plyometrics is a surefire way to
Speaker:strengthen up through the tendons and the lower muscles of the leg to
Speaker:also be injury preventative too.
Speaker:>> Charlie: I should have done that before my run last week and then
Speaker:I would have realised before I started running that I was not wearing a
Speaker:sports bra because that was.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah, yeah, they can help with all the
Speaker:things you're like, oh, wait, yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, something's not right here.
Speaker:>> Charlie: This podcast is sponsored by X Miles, your one stop
Speaker:nutrition shop. Remember this month you can save
Speaker:10% across Scratch Labs. Full
Speaker:range@xmiles.com with the code
Speaker:COOKEATRUN. Their range of products are ideal for
Speaker:running and strength training. Carb loading. I use the high
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Speaker:>> Charlie: Both of my last marathon carb loads.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Which has 100 grammes of carbs per serving. It's so
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Speaker:>> Charlie: Cookeatrun@xmiles.com
Speaker:so we're runners. I can understand the
Speaker:lower leg. Like, yeah, I need to strengthen my legs. But you
Speaker:said a whole session potentially focusing on
Speaker:upper body and core. Why?
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: So, yes, we run with our legs, but
Speaker:that movement is directed and
Speaker:controlled by your posture, by your core. So people always
Speaker:think about core as just abs. Your core is,
Speaker:yes, that central being, but it's also the top of your
Speaker:glutes. It also actually involves the chest. And
Speaker:it's, a. It's a big thing that I speak about when
Speaker:I say in classes that I coach is the arms
Speaker:drive the legs when the legs don't want to go. So when I get
Speaker:personally to the end of my end of marathons and I'm,
Speaker:I'm trying and I can see the clock and I'm chasing
Speaker:it, I will drive my arms. Because it
Speaker:is actually physically impossible to drive your arms
Speaker:without your hips moving. So.
Speaker:But they will. Like, I'm sitting here and my legs
Speaker:are moving, so it's really hard
Speaker:to not allow your hips to move while your arms do. So if you've
Speaker:got strength here, if you're. If we are talking about
Speaker:marathoners, do you know that are going to be running 3, 4,
Speaker:5, 6 hours if you've got strength up
Speaker:here to hold you up, so that when you're struggling with your
Speaker:breath, we're not collapsing through the chest, closing
Speaker:that off. If we can be strong here, we've got strong
Speaker:back muscles to help us run along. So our neck is tall so
Speaker:we can get that air in. There's all
Speaker:those huge things which will then enable
Speaker:you to actually run better if your upper body
Speaker:is stronger. So it is that weird thing. And whenever I
Speaker:do get on, you know, new clients, they're like, what do you mean,
Speaker:why am I doing upper body? Why are you getting me to do press ups? Like,
Speaker:I don't like press ups. I'm like, trust me.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, you see so many people at the end of
Speaker:marathons, kind of like that slump, that shuffle and
Speaker:slump, and you're just like, I know, I've been there, I've done
Speaker:it. And also, I don't know whether it's because of the
Speaker:way, like, my running form, but
Speaker:my abs often go first. Like, I,
Speaker:I definitely ignore them in the gym to my
Speaker:peril. And, they're what kind of lets me down
Speaker:before my legs, before my arms, before my fueling. I'm
Speaker:like, oh, gosh.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Cora is honestly essential with it. And you know what, for for
Speaker:women who, who have larger breasts as well, having a
Speaker:stronger upper body will really help you because obviously we
Speaker:speak like I know you speak on it a lot about getting the right sports
Speaker:bra and being in that and yeah
Speaker:biomechanically the way that if you're not in that right sports
Speaker:bra but then add in that you don't have the upper body strength
Speaker:to carry yourself, it will just have
Speaker:that added knock on effect to make it
Speaker:more challenging for you to move and keep yourself
Speaker:upright. So it's one of the things I,
Speaker:yeah I know from myself if I'm weak in my upper body,
Speaker:I'm, I'm rotating my arms all over the place. I'm just trying,
Speaker:do you know, I'm just trying to go. So my chest will
Speaker:actually force me to do that. But yeah,
Speaker:getting body strength in is just, will
Speaker:add to helping with that.
Speaker:>> Charlie: that's so interesting. I've never thought about that. But of course that we're
Speaker:literally carrying more weight up there. yeah, it's
Speaker:harder. So basically it's my boobs fault
Speaker:that I have no core strength.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: You touched a little bit on kind of it being women
Speaker:and that you know, women with bigger breasts.
Speaker:But why is it so important for women kind of
Speaker:at 30 plus to
Speaker:do strengthening? I think that I certainly grew
Speaker:up in the like we do small weights or we
Speaker:don't do any weights because they'll make you bulky. And luckily that has
Speaker:changed and definitely my mindset has changed on
Speaker:that and the next generation are in the gym
Speaker:lifting and it's amazing. But I'm
Speaker:sure there are lots of women who grew up in that, you
Speaker:know, the 90s, the naughties,
Speaker:where thin was what everyone was
Speaker:going after. And so that meant low
Speaker:weights or no weights kind of thing.
Speaker:Why is it so important for these women to
Speaker:start strength training? Kind of for
Speaker:longevity, for their health now
Speaker:to see them into later life.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah. So over the age of 30, I can't remember
Speaker:the exact percentage but we lose
Speaker:our our bone strength, we lose that muscle, our
Speaker:muscle mass starts to deplete. I think it's from
Speaker:30 onwards. So
Speaker:doing everything you can to make sure that
Speaker:you retain that strength and as you said,
Speaker:especially longevity. Like you know I, I look at my mom, my
Speaker:mom is 77 and she was in that era. Do you know
Speaker:where it wasn't weights, it was just clappy
Speaker:hands and, and doing all the thing, you know,
Speaker:style, Zumba style. But like with nothing
Speaker:and the conversations I've Tried to have
Speaker:or had with her. Very much saying about, no, strength's important for
Speaker:you, because I think I can't remember who it was that
Speaker:researched it, but, looked at quad
Speaker:strength in older people especially, and those
Speaker:that lifted weights and had stronger quads,
Speaker:we're less likely to have falls. And those are those big
Speaker:kind of things that affect people into latter age.
Speaker:So strength, I can't emphasise,
Speaker:is so important. And, you know, people always talk about
Speaker:functional fitness and functional strength. I know it's a big
Speaker:buzzword, but it's so important so
Speaker:that you literally can function day to day
Speaker:in the future.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, I think I've noticed that so much with,
Speaker:like, the thing. The key
Speaker:actually, for me getting into strength training
Speaker:wasn't the running. And I know that I probably could have
Speaker:run faster, run better
Speaker:years ago through strength training, but it's actually having
Speaker:my son who is so heavy and wants to be
Speaker:carried all the time. And I don't want to be like, no, I can't
Speaker:hold you because I'm not strong enough to hold you. If you want
Speaker:to be cuddled or carried or lifted, and me having
Speaker:to squat down and pick things up and actually that was
Speaker:the big, big change. For me to be like, this
Speaker:needs to be a priority because I want to be able
Speaker:to, you know, carry
Speaker:him, lift him over my head, do whatever I need to
Speaker:do. so I think that's, yeah, looking at what your
Speaker:lifestyle is and what things do you want to
Speaker:either start doing or keep doing
Speaker:that strength will help with? Because I think it's, you know, it's all
Speaker:very. Well, being like, running isn't the most important
Speaker:thing for, for most people, it's the
Speaker:hobby, it's the one off goal. It's the,
Speaker:like the, you know, the marathon is the one off thing or
Speaker:it's part of our lifestyle, but we do it for mental health and for
Speaker:social. But actually some people don't, don't mind
Speaker:about the time. So I think, yeah, thinking about
Speaker:that functionality and adding strength
Speaker:into improve your day to day is
Speaker:so important.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah, exactly that. And it's, it's thinking, as
Speaker:you said, beyond just the running. Like, we love it, of
Speaker:course we do, but it's thinking, cool. How can I help myself outside of
Speaker:this, but also help my future self too?
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. So we, we've touched a little bit on,
Speaker:injury prevention, longevity. What are the other
Speaker:benefits for runners to be strength training?
Speaker:Like, what can we get faster?
Speaker:Can we get more efficient? What are the kind of the
Speaker:benefits of this.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah, both those two. So first faster.
Speaker:So specifically when doing strength in those lower
Speaker:legs and increasing the strength of our
Speaker:tendons, especially kind of the Achilles and things
Speaker:like that, the stronger they are, the more force
Speaker:they're going to be able to not only absorb but exert.
Speaker:So you will be able to run faster
Speaker:paces without having to
Speaker:exert as much energy as you would if they weren't that
Speaker:strong. So that's, that's amazing. That's first and
Speaker:foremost. I mean, yeah, it's like a, it's not a quick fix but it's a nice
Speaker:fix to be able to be like, I just need to get stronger Achilles and lower
Speaker:calves and I'll run faster. so that's the
Speaker:first one then. Yeah, efficiency wise from like a, yeah a gate
Speaker:perspective. We spoke about like the upper body not having so much
Speaker:rotation, that's going to save you lots of energy
Speaker:over longer runs. so yeah, all these knock on
Speaker:effects of the strength work will
Speaker:allow you to be able to push out the ground more, will allow you to be able
Speaker:to run taller, that prouder chest, to be able to be more
Speaker:efficient as you try to run forwards.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Okay, well I'm definitely sold. But for those
Speaker:starting coming at it, this is obviously
Speaker:a fueling a nutrition podcast. Where
Speaker:do we start with nutrition for strength training?
Speaker:Is it the same as running? Especially if we're doing kind of
Speaker:standalone, strength sessions?
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Definitely. I would say you have to feel for strength
Speaker:like that's, that's the biggest importance. I
Speaker:think some people could think that, you know, because you're not necessarily
Speaker:quote unquote sweating a lot,
Speaker:that like you don't need all the extra because you're
Speaker:not burning as many calories in the moment,
Speaker:but the, the after effect of
Speaker:lifting heavy weights is gonna
Speaker:have, your body will be depleted. And when
Speaker:we strength train, if we're going really scientifically, you're basically
Speaker:in the best way possible breaking down the
Speaker:muscles and then you're making them stronger so
Speaker:that then when they repair they are stronger. so what
Speaker:we need to make sure is yes, before you're fueling
Speaker:yourself, you're having something with carbs. And then
Speaker:afterwards again you can probably say more
Speaker:about the golden hour, if it exists or not. But then having that
Speaker:protein source after you've had that,
Speaker:because I say protein helps with that muscle
Speaker:resynthesis, helps that muscle growth. So if you
Speaker:are doing a strength session as much as possible, try
Speaker:to have something with protein thereafter
Speaker:because that, that kind of, I don't know about you, but I
Speaker:get so hungry after I lift that
Speaker:I then end up getting hangry and so I need to get that
Speaker:protein in to help with my body's recovery. But also that m muscle
Speaker:repair too.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, what I've noticed is like my runs
Speaker:finish at home, so I've got, got a cupboard, a
Speaker:fridge, I've got loads of things on like up to
Speaker:hand so that I can eat the right thing quite
Speaker:quickly. But often, well,
Speaker:all the time strength training is at the gym and
Speaker:I'll either forget, to bring anything with
Speaker:me and then the options there are horrendous
Speaker:and so then I'll wait and I'll drive home and then it's
Speaker:like busy and I'm starving. So yeah,
Speaker:for me the post strength training actually has to be way more
Speaker:organised than I do after a run
Speaker:because that naturally either finishes at, my house
Speaker:or at the coffee shop with, you know, nice options
Speaker:available. So, yeah, they're just being
Speaker:organised. And then the other thing is if you are
Speaker:trying to stack those, the run and
Speaker:the strength training, especially if it's not kind of just within a 40
Speaker:minute, but if you're doing like say an hour on the treadmill
Speaker:and then an hour strength training and this is where
Speaker:I have definitely fallen down in the past, is
Speaker:not fueled enough for that second bit and not gone.
Speaker:Actually this is over now. Over 70 minutes of,
Speaker:of exercise. I need to be fueling in
Speaker:the middle, maybe like having a carb drink on the treadmill
Speaker:or having an energy bar that I can eat between,
Speaker:between the two things. And yeah, focusing on
Speaker:carbs for that bit and then the protein for after.
Speaker:So yeah, just being organised, isn't it, with
Speaker:all of these things like fitting your training in
Speaker:getting your nutrition right. It's all kind of trial
Speaker:and error in organisation.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Yeah, 100%. And as you said, like, that is the
Speaker:big one. If you are going to double up those sessions, it is kind
Speaker:of mid run being like, oh, hang on a minute. Treat this
Speaker:as if it's a long run, you know, you're doing a strength work. So how would you
Speaker:fuel that back end of your long run? Great, I'm going to
Speaker:take on that extra carb during that run and
Speaker:then for after. Things that can, you know, really help
Speaker:is if you have that shake or whatever it could be, it could be a
Speaker:protein bar, you know, as simple as that, just having that that
Speaker:you can have in the car and you know, you, you buy them
Speaker:from for the start of the week, maybe do a food shop or Whatever. And literally
Speaker:they live in the car so that you don't have to think about
Speaker:carrying them. As soon as you get them, they go there so that every time
Speaker:you get in after you finish the gym, you're like, yep, I know where they
Speaker:are. So there's little things that you can just try to help
Speaker:make your life easier. again with the business. I know that
Speaker:we all, we all live in and try to jump from thing to thing,
Speaker:trying to make it more accessible.
Speaker:It is huge.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Emma. Where can people find you?
Speaker:>> Charlie: It sounds like you have.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Oh, I know you've got great training plans and you
Speaker:work one to one with people. So where can people find you
Speaker:for your strength and running expertise?
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: So you've got my full name, emma
Speaker:kirkodanoobie.com. like that's where you'll, you'll
Speaker:find everything about kind of website stuff, but mostly on
Speaker:Instagram, interact in the DMs, just, ask me questions,
Speaker:all the things. and hopefully, yeah, I can share some
Speaker:stuff that you guys will also find useful from a strength perspective as
Speaker:well.
Speaker:>> Charlie: It's very useful. I'll leave all those links below. Emma, thank you
Speaker:so much for joining me this evening. And yeah, I'll
Speaker:leave everything so that people can come and find you.
Speaker:>> Emma Kirk-Odunubi: Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's been great.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Kick Eat Run
Speaker:podcast with X Miles. On the next episode, I am talking
Speaker:to Tom Hollis about bicarb, bicarb of
Speaker:soda. You, might have seen it called sodium cut
Speaker:bicarb. It's making a bit of a
Speaker:resurgence in the running world and I wanted.
Speaker:>> Charlie: To find out more about why, how.
Speaker:>> Charlie: It can be used and how runners like me can add it
Speaker:into their training or whether we even should. So make sure to
Speaker:subscribe and leave a rating and review. It really helps the
Speaker:podcast be like, reached by other people. Let me
Speaker:know what other topics you want me to cover in future weeks.
Speaker:Thank you so much for listening to Cook Run, the podcast
Speaker:hosted by me, Charlie Watson, sponsored by X Miles.
Speaker:They are your one stop nutrition shop.
Speaker:Come and find me on social media hereunnerbeans.
Speaker:and tell me what you're loving on the podcast. Send me all of your
Speaker:questions and suggestions for future episodes.
Speaker:All the links you need to connect with me are in the show notes.
Speaker:Lastly, please rate the Cook Run podcast.
Speaker:It really means a lot to see your ratings and reviews.
Speaker:Obviously the five star ones go down very well,
Speaker:but please let me know what you think. It really does make a
Speaker:massive difference.
Speaker:>> Charlie: As it helps more people discover us.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And join our amazing running community.
Speaker:See you back here for another episode soon. In the meantime,
Speaker:happy running and don't.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Forget to fuel yourself. Bye.
