London & Boston Marathon debrief episode with Andy Raynor, aka FOD Runner
From carb-loading to ketones, this episode brings you a sub-3 Marathoner's Guide to fuelling success.
Fuel your passion for running with the latest episode of Cook Eat Run - Charlie Watson (now 16-time marathoner!) dives deep into the world of running nutrition with Andy, aka ‘The FOD runner’. Andy is a YouTuber, running coach, and sXMiles ambassador, and in this episode shares the secrets behind his sub-3 hour marathon success.
Charlie also shares her own Boston Marathon experience, revealing how a hot day led to on-the-fly adjustments to her hydration and sodium intake. Charlie shares her carb-loading techniques and how she managed to nail her nutrition despite the challenging conditions. Andy shares his approach to carb loading, and his experimentation with ketone supplements as a potential third energy source (don't miss Charlie’s view as a dietician as she unpacks the use of ketones and whether they're worth the investment at the end of the episode!)
This episode is packed with practical advice for runners of all levels, with super valuable insights on fueling, hydration, and the mental clarity that comes with proper nutrition.
Connect with Charlie online @therunnerbeans / www.therunnerbeans.com
Grab a copy of Charlie’s book ‘Cook Eat Run’
The Cook Eat Run Podcast is sponsored by XMiles - the One Stop Nutrition Shop - use discount code CER-POD10 for 10% off site wide at Xmiles.co.uk
This podcast is produced by Buckers at Decibelle Creative decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative
Transcript
>> Charlie: Hello and welcome to the Cook Eat Run podcast sponsored by
Speaker:xmls. This is the podcast for all things
Speaker:running, nutrition, training, tips and advice, running
Speaker:gear. We get into it all. I'm Charlie
Speaker:Watson. I'm an NHS dietitian, author of
Speaker:cookbook cook, Eat Run. I blog and Instagram
Speaker:over at Therunner Beans and I'm now a 16 time
Speaker:marathoner. Had to update that because I just ran my number
Speaker:16. So if you want to improve your
Speaker:marathon PB, simply enjoy running more
Speaker:or just want to improve your fueling for your
Speaker:marathon, we have got you covered.
Speaker:So lace up your trainers, grab a cup of tea, get
Speaker:comfy and let's get going with today's episode.
Speaker:Today I am talking to Andy, aka
Speaker:Fodrunner, which I learned in today's episode
Speaker:stands for Forest of Dean Runner. I think I knew that, but
Speaker:nice to just have it confirmed from the man himself.
Speaker:He is a youtuber, a running coach and a sub three hour
Speaker:marathoner. he is a fast guy and he's so nice. He's
Speaker:exactly the same on his YouTube as he was
Speaker:via this Zoom recording. So that's
Speaker:always really nice to know that people are how they appear on
Speaker:screen. We're going to go into a little debrief of, how
Speaker:his London marathon went, how he fueled,
Speaker:what went well that day, and his general running nutrition.
Speaker:As I said, this podcast is spot sponsored by xmars. They have a
Speaker:lovely discount to give to all of you listeners if you
Speaker:use the code cookeatrun ten, that will save
Speaker:you 10% off site wide.
Speaker:First, I am going to talk to you a little bit about my Boston
Speaker:marathon that I ran two and a bit weeks ago
Speaker:now. So if you weren't following along on
Speaker:Instagram with all the Boston marathoners sharing, it was a
Speaker:hot day. So my fueling
Speaker:strategy changed almost as soon as
Speaker:I was walking to the start line. When we realised that we were kind of sweating.
Speaker:I definitely had that sweaty upper lip as I was walking to the start line.
Speaker:I was like, this is going to need more liquid,
Speaker:more hydration and more sodium than I have
Speaker:prepared for. So my original fueling
Speaker:strategy was to have a gel,
Speaker:on the way to the start line, take a handheld bottle
Speaker:with a mixture of the carb and
Speaker:electrolyte mix from precision fuel and hydration and
Speaker:carry that with me for the first five or 6 miles and then to
Speaker:switch to using the water stations and
Speaker:using precision fuel and hydration, the
Speaker:30 gramme carbohydrate gels
Speaker:every 30 minutes. And I was going to kind of alternate between the
Speaker:caffeinated ones and the non caffeinated to make
Speaker:sure they hit at peak time. So I was going to take one at 90 minutes,
Speaker:at, 2 hours, and at two and a half hours with the goal of a
Speaker:sub four hour marathon. What I
Speaker:ended up doing was taking those
Speaker:gels every 30 minutes and walking through
Speaker:every single water station to grab a cup of
Speaker:gatorade, a cup of water to drink, and, tip a cup of water
Speaker:over my head. I also finished my
Speaker:bottle of the carbon electrolyte mix
Speaker:within about 40 minutes. The plan was
Speaker:to use it for about an hour. And then the other thing
Speaker:I changed in the lead up to the race was that I added
Speaker:in a whole pack of the salt stick
Speaker:electrolyte chews, and I took two of those
Speaker:with every gel until I finished the packet.
Speaker:So that was a learning for me, that I need more than one packet
Speaker:on a hot race. Overall, I didn't cramp.
Speaker:I didn't feel other than kind of
Speaker:feeling sore after the race and sore for much
Speaker:longer than I've ever, like, experienced before.
Speaker:I didn't experience any issues with hydration.
Speaker:I was about five minutes slower than I wanted to be,
Speaker:and, my quads were completely wrecked.
Speaker:So I know that I gave everything I had on that day,
Speaker:and training went well. I definitely know that I
Speaker:trained my stomach well because I tolerated all of the
Speaker:carbs, all of the sodium, all of that liquid. So
Speaker:other than a quick lubricant, I think mile 17,
Speaker:yeah, I feel like it all went well, and it was definitely a good
Speaker:springboard for my marathon in
Speaker:Berlin in September, which also might be hot. So just need to get
Speaker:that sodium right. I think the sodium and the
Speaker:hydration, another thing that went really well for
Speaker:me was my carb loading. I did a three day carb
Speaker:load starting on the Friday morning in
Speaker:Boston because the race is on a Monday, and
Speaker:I aimed for between 520 and
Speaker:550 grammes of carbs a day. I
Speaker:absolutely nailed it. I used a lot of liquid
Speaker:for my carb load, so I used the scratch
Speaker:labs high carbohydrate drink, which has
Speaker:100 grammes of carbs in a bottle. So
Speaker:I mix that in 500 mls. It's quite intense.
Speaker:When it's in 500 millilitres, it gets quite sticky and it's quite hard to pour it
Speaker:all in. So I ended up doing two bottles of
Speaker:50 because that just helped a bit more with
Speaker:hydration and, with the tolerance of being able to kind of mix it all
Speaker:in. I also used gummy
Speaker:sweets at the end of the day, just to top up. I had a
Speaker:lot of crackers, bagels, rice krispies
Speaker:squares, pasta.
Speaker:Lucasade. No, I didn't actually use Lucas aid. I used Gatorade.
Speaker:The american equivalent. Yeah,
Speaker:I think overall, it went really well. I think I'd
Speaker:probably use more sports nutrition next
Speaker:time. So maybe use Morton bars, because they've got 40
Speaker:grammes of carbs in use. The scratch
Speaker:labs chews, which are really good, instead of sweets. Just again,
Speaker:for more carbs, more bang for your buck. But
Speaker:overall, I think I nailed the carb load. I'm excited
Speaker:to see what I can achieve with a good
Speaker:summer of training, lots of practise
Speaker:with hydration, sodium fueling,
Speaker:another carb load, and an overall, maybe
Speaker:better nutrition week on week, which I want to
Speaker:go in and talk about more
Speaker:in a couple of months when I have made some more tweaks.
Speaker:But, overall, yeah, I'm really pleased with how
Speaker:the marathon went. I, as I say, I was a
Speaker:bit slower than I would have liked to have been, but overall,
Speaker:five minutes over goal time was not something that I could be
Speaker:upset about. So let's get
Speaker:into today's conversation with Andy.
Speaker:So, Andy M. Thank you so much for joining me on the
Speaker:podcast today.
Speaker:>> Andy: Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker:>> Charlie: How are you? How are the post marathon
Speaker:legs?
Speaker:>> Andy: Well, the post marathon legs are actually okay,
Speaker:to be honest with you. Surprisingly, I thought that they
Speaker:would be, trashed, but, the way that
Speaker:London panned out meant that I didn't quite go
Speaker:to the well like I have done in the past. So
Speaker:I'm fighting the urge to run at the moment, but I'm trying
Speaker:to let the body rest. But at the same time,
Speaker:yeah, no aches and pains. Feeling very grateful.
Speaker:>> Charlie: That's sometimes, like, a good thing, and sometimes you're like, oh,
Speaker:could I have, you know, could I have done something different on race
Speaker:day to make it hurt more?
Speaker:Absolutely. I would say my
Speaker:legs after the Boston marathon, what,
Speaker:ten days ago now? Yeah, about ten days ago.
Speaker:They've never hurt so much, and it's only maybe in the last
Speaker:two days that they feel normal again. And I'm like,
Speaker:right, okay. I did do everything I could have.
Speaker:>> Andy: Done out there, to be honest.
Speaker:Boston is a, different ballgame to London.
Speaker:Don't get me wrong. 26.2 miles is
Speaker:hard on whatever course you run. But everybody I
Speaker:speak to at Boston, that's, done. Boston says that the
Speaker:legs have hurt the most. And I gather, probably it's
Speaker:because of all the downhills. yes, there's uphills as well,
Speaker:but we kind of, as runners, we can kind of get through
Speaker:uphills, but the downhills, I think, is what catches a lot
Speaker:of us out.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. And I think in training we. I certainly
Speaker:did some hill repeats and neglected,
Speaker:any downhill repeats. So,
Speaker:yeah, learnings for next time. But,
Speaker:>> Andy: Absolutely.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Well, you got a course
Speaker:PB on Sunday.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yes.
Speaker:>> Charlie: But it sounds like it wasn't quite the day you were
Speaker:hoping for, and it's quite far from your
Speaker:current PB. So can you tell us
Speaker:what. What went well and what didn't quite go to plan on?
Speaker:Yeah, in training and kind of on race day.
Speaker:>> Andy: Absolutely. So training was just hampered
Speaker:this time with a, virus, to be perfectly honest with
Speaker:you. Well, two viruses, I suffered with, I
Speaker:did London 2022, which was in October.
Speaker:They pushed it to October that year, m to make
Speaker:sure it went ahead post COVID. And that was amazing.
Speaker:I actually caught COVID two days after London when I got
Speaker:home. So I'm assuming the hustle and bustle of. Of
Speaker:COVID of London. Sorry. Was, enough
Speaker:to tip me over the edge there. I caught it and
Speaker:I suffered for a day, and then started
Speaker:to feel better. but this year, January
Speaker:26, I started to feel unwell.
Speaker:Standard stuff. You kind of think, well, I feel a bit unwell. but I keep
Speaker:training because we often train through my rule of thumb, which
Speaker:is not advocated by doctors. So I just want to make
Speaker:that very clear. But if the symptoms for me are like head, neck
Speaker:up, then I keep training. Like, if it's a head
Speaker:cold sinuse, I'll just keep it easy running, but I'll
Speaker:keep training. If it's. If it's neck down, like chest, I don't
Speaker:run. And everything was neck up. I just felt a bit
Speaker:lethargic, didn't think anything of it. and
Speaker:then I just kept going down and down and down. I was
Speaker:due to fly out to Barcelona for the half marathon,
Speaker:and I, still flew out, but at this point I had a
Speaker:temperature. And for the first time in ten years of running, my
Speaker:wife had to come and pick me up from a run, which, is
Speaker:honestly, it's never happened. so we flew out there and
Speaker:I kind of deep down, knew I wasn't gonna run it, but
Speaker:I hoped. I tried. I did a shakeout run.
Speaker:I got through it, but it didn't feel great. I woke up on the morning
Speaker:of Barcelona temperature and, you know, for
Speaker:context, my resting heart rate. Well, leading into
Speaker:London it was, it's around low fifties. While in
Speaker:Barcelona it was, mid to high
Speaker:sixties and just walking around in the hundreds. So
Speaker:I knew I was a big red flag. Yeah, massive.
Speaker:I was battling something and it just lasted for about three
Speaker:weeks or two weeks, to be fair. And as I started
Speaker:to build back into it, my little one, who's
Speaker:four, he brought home another virus from his nursery.
Speaker:And I guess with my immune system still
Speaker:weak from that first one, I caught it again, went back
Speaker:downhill, kind of relapsed for another week, built
Speaker:back up. and the reality is that was in the crucial
Speaker:part of training. So I actually then didn't do a workout
Speaker:until the last day in February, I
Speaker:think it was. So I missed a whole month of. I just did easy and
Speaker:moderate running.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And that was it.
Speaker:>> Andy: So that's the key point, as you know, with the spring marathon, that's the
Speaker:key point to do your training. So it was
Speaker:then mission get to the start line and just see what you could
Speaker:do. And actually, I'm very grateful. My heart rate did really come down
Speaker:towards the end, of the training bottom, probably to the point where it's the
Speaker:lowest it's ever been. But I missed that
Speaker:endurance training and, it just, you know, I strung
Speaker:together what I could on the day. But I think that's why I feel
Speaker:good because my heart rate for the whole run was
Speaker:158. Well, normally my heart rate for a marathon
Speaker:is as a minimum, it's 165 average. And
Speaker:I'm, you know, getting well into the. Didn't even
Speaker:touch that this time. So I just.
Speaker:Yeah, it was one of those days. Plus, the only other
Speaker:thing I could say about it, a good and a bad, I
Speaker:suppose London was insane. The
Speaker:atmosphere is, was way better than
Speaker:2024. but coupled with that,
Speaker:it was overcrowded and there was just
Speaker:so many runners on the course. And where I
Speaker:was around 257 in that
Speaker:250 realm, there was just a wall of
Speaker:runners from start to finish. The depth of
Speaker:athletes out there was absolutely
Speaker:incredible. But obviously that made it very difficult to run your own
Speaker:race. There was no way you could get any clear,
Speaker:clear traffic in front of you. So, yeah, an
Speaker:amazing day. London was incredible, but
Speaker:definitely, found it more challenging than
Speaker:2022.
Speaker:>> Charlie: That's interesting to hear. I ran in 2022 and
Speaker:thought the crowds were amazing. Then I was in the crowds
Speaker:on Sunday and, have heard so many
Speaker:runners. Lots of Americans came over and just were like,
Speaker:London's even better than New York. This is incredible. So it's
Speaker:great to hear that the not only kind of
Speaker:participation, but that the crowds,
Speaker:hopefully were bigger and better than they've ever been
Speaker:before.
Speaker:>> Andy: They were unreal, like, to a point where
Speaker:I would say there was maybe two or three portions on the course
Speaker:that were a bit quiet, but the rest of it, I remember
Speaker:20 to 26 miles in
Speaker:2022 being a little bit sort of not
Speaker:hit and miss, but there were quiet parts and noisy parts. It
Speaker:was a wall of noise to the finish, and that's what
Speaker:kept me going. It was, yeah, it was
Speaker:unbelievable.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Oh, good. Well, I'm glad you had a
Speaker:different day. No, maybe not the day you were really striving
Speaker:for, but hopefully a good day. It was anyway.
Speaker:Yeah. And, so what kind of. What went
Speaker:well in terms of race day? It sounds like
Speaker:you got yourself into pretty decent shape to a
Speaker:run sub three, but to have that low heart rate
Speaker:for the entirety of the race.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah. to be honest with you, it was. It was kind of like I did
Speaker:a 20 week training block, and I came off the back of a year last
Speaker:year where training was uninterrupted, uninjured,
Speaker:nothing. So I was very lucky to have that. And
Speaker:in reality, I still got weeks. I did a
Speaker:20 week block and I got weeks, one to twelve
Speaker:completed. So I still had some good training under me. It
Speaker:was just when we got to that longer work,
Speaker:that's when things. Things went south. So I think that
Speaker:I had something in there and I think
Speaker:nutrition as well, in terms of I
Speaker:ate and fueled well, I've got into a good habit now
Speaker:with my nutrition, where with carb
Speaker:loading and stuff, I've seen to have fingers
Speaker:crossed. I've experimented in the past, but I've got it
Speaker:down, to a.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Tell us more.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, it's from. Okay, so
Speaker:I know you know him, but Tom Hollis. Ah,
Speaker:amazing, amazing chap. I did one of his
Speaker:nutritional webinars, leading up to London, and it kind of
Speaker:confirmed what I was doing, but made me a little bit even more
Speaker:meticulous about it. And that was just to start
Speaker:Thursday night and just to add 50%
Speaker:extra carbs to my dinner. So if I had, like,
Speaker:pasta and something, whatever protein it was,
Speaker:just add an extra scoop of pasta that night, and
Speaker:then on Friday and the Saturday,
Speaker:100% more. But that's not to
Speaker:say I would have, like, a huge bowl of pasta.
Speaker:It's just to keep eating normally, but just add in
Speaker:extra carbs. So my stomach didn't ever get
Speaker:bloated or feel I didn't feel
Speaker:lethargic. I didn't need to change my diet.
Speaker:It was, it was. That's. And that's worked really well for me.
Speaker:And I cut out fibre in the last 48 hours as
Speaker:well to ensure, there's no, issues on race day.
Speaker:And then on Saturday evening I have a drink
Speaker:mix, a carb drink mix. I usually
Speaker:alternate between the sis beta fuel and the Morton drink
Speaker:mix or one of those two. Sunday morning, Sunday
Speaker:morning, same again. So I have my porridge with chocolate
Speaker:spread, as the breakfast, and then I have a drink mix
Speaker:and that tops up, the carb stores. And that
Speaker:has worked well for me for the last three marathons. And to be
Speaker:honest with you, even on half marathons,
Speaker:I kind of still follow that to a degree.
Speaker:And even on other races. Drink mixes are my go
Speaker:to on the evening before and the morning of. And
Speaker:then. Yeah, a gel ten minutes
Speaker:before. that has become, a
Speaker:ritual now.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And, then which ones do you use? Do
Speaker:you use the same ones throughout the race or do you have a different one that you
Speaker:have pre and then during?
Speaker:>> Andy: No, I use the same ones and I stick with
Speaker:Morton. But I.
Speaker:Morton goes down. I don't like the
Speaker:texture but it sits well in my stomach
Speaker:where there are others that taste great but doesn't sit well in my stomach.
Speaker:So I have to kind of balance that, and yeah, just fueling from the
Speaker:start every 25, 30 minutes with a gel.
Speaker:I came unstuck towards the end. I couldn't quite take on the
Speaker:fifth gel. Didn't quite work out, but I got four out
Speaker:there on the course, plus water, and some
Speaker:ketone IQ that I'm trying at the moment. So
Speaker:that all went really well. So in terms of nutrition, I
Speaker:think that that set me up in good stead because
Speaker:naturally if you start to burn through those glycogen
Speaker:stores pretty quickly, your heart rate will, you'll get
Speaker:sort of cardiac drift, your heart rate will increase quickly
Speaker:and fast and yeah, you could be hitting your threshold
Speaker:quicker, than you would normally. So I attribute
Speaker:that to being, able to keep a good heart rate.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, I mean, I think that. I don't know whether you feel
Speaker:the same way, but I really feel like
Speaker:so many runners either don't give
Speaker:nutrition the kind of the kudos that it
Speaker:needs for performance. We look at our training,
Speaker:we look at our trainers, we look at race day
Speaker:conditions and we don't look at what actually the
Speaker:fuel we've given our body to be able to perform,
Speaker:and then so many people just kind of don't ignore it as
Speaker:part of training. And you've said that you use a carb load
Speaker:for your, or a bit of a carb load with the carb
Speaker:drinks for half marathons. and that
Speaker:works really well for you. But we have to train our stomachs to be
Speaker:able to take in that much.
Speaker:>> Andy: We do.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Do you take the Mortons on, like,
Speaker:long training runs, or do you save that for race day and use
Speaker:something else?
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, that's a really good question. I do. But obviously,
Speaker:fueling can be an expensive game, so I've also
Speaker:bought. I've bought
Speaker:maltodextrin on its own, which is the main
Speaker:component for a lot of gels anyway. And,
Speaker:what I will sometimes do is make my own soft flask
Speaker:of maltodextrin, and I'll often have that before my
Speaker:run. and I have been known to take it in a soft
Speaker:flask out on the run. If I'm not practising with gels, I
Speaker:do. If I can prefer to train with
Speaker:gels, just, as you said, training
Speaker:the stomach, getting it used to it. I mean, my next hurdle, as
Speaker:with every athlete, there's not one person out there that
Speaker:isn't in this position. But my next step is
Speaker:to learn to take on a fifth gel, a 6th
Speaker:gel. So training the gut to be able
Speaker:to handle more carbs per hour.
Speaker:and that's just a long process that we have to go through. But everyone
Speaker:is at different stages in that game. Some people have no issues
Speaker:with it, and some people struggle to just take on one
Speaker:gel or any fuel at all. So it
Speaker:is a long process. I just find because I've
Speaker:now used Morton successfully for three
Speaker:marathons, I am reluctant
Speaker:to change, if you know what I mean.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, absolutely. Just going to do a little plug
Speaker:here. So, you said that, you know, fueling can be
Speaker:expensive. The kind folk at, xmiles have given
Speaker:us a 10% discount with
Speaker:the podcast code cookeatrun
Speaker:ten. So you can save 10% on your Morton
Speaker:gels, your carb drinks. I personally really like
Speaker:the scratch high carb drink. Have you ever
Speaker:tried that one?
Speaker:>> Andy: I haven't, but I have tried scratch stuff before. A
Speaker:while ago, it worked with my stomach. It was one of the ones that was
Speaker:okay.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, I was really impressed. I tried it in Boston for the
Speaker:first time. Don't try anything new on race weekend.
Speaker:But, having tried other products before, I thought it would be
Speaker:fine. And it was 100 grammes of carbs.
Speaker:Per 500 mil? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:incredible. And that was a lot of my carb
Speaker:load. Was those at least one of those a day.
Speaker:And it really just takes the pressure off, kind of eating
Speaker:quite so much.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah. Because you can often feel bloated if you eat a
Speaker:lot to try and get that carb count up. So that's the beauty
Speaker:of those carb drinks. It allows you to
Speaker:feel not quite as bloated, but get the carbs
Speaker:in.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So I'm interested. So Morton
Speaker:doesn't have electrolytes in. Did you take
Speaker:any electrolytes or sodium
Speaker:in your car blade or on course?
Speaker:>> Andy: No, no. I. I found
Speaker:that I was okay. Well, I say I was okay.
Speaker:The last 2 miles were tough, and I kind of. I hit a bit
Speaker:of a wall in at, 20, just past
Speaker:24. So I got nearly to the end. And I
Speaker:am quite a salty sweater. So I do often have to take,
Speaker:electrolytes. But I have found in the past of my
Speaker:last two marathons that I've been
Speaker:okay with Morton and the fluid on the
Speaker:course. Just making sure I keep hydrated, because in the past, I've
Speaker:often suffered with stomach cramps just when trying to
Speaker:drink. And so, after London
Speaker:2022, that's when it was at my worst.
Speaker:I should have gone into the medical tent. I didn't, and
Speaker:I was in a bad way. And, you know, it's one of those things where
Speaker:I'm not. Well, me and my wife had a chat, and it was like,
Speaker:you're not doing another one until you can take on fluid.
Speaker:Because dehydration in a marathon is just
Speaker:horrific, you know? So the.
Speaker:The first port of call was to get water down. And
Speaker:now I have run two successful marathons, including this
Speaker:one where I'm able to drink and take on Morton.
Speaker:yeah, the next. The next step will be maybe
Speaker:adding in some electrolytes. I have in the past, trained
Speaker:with salt sticks. Salt tabs.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, they're amazing. Yep. Salt stick.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Use their pills or the chews.
Speaker:>> Andy: They chews. And I've had
Speaker:those, in long runs and practise with those. They work
Speaker:well. but because the temperature wasn't crazy
Speaker:hot during London this year, I just didn't.
Speaker:And I just went with the fluid on the course. And, the Morton
Speaker:gels.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Did you take any of the leukazade on course, or was it just
Speaker:pure water? Yeah.
Speaker:>> Andy: No, I didn't want to. I'm not very. I have had leukocyte
Speaker:before. When I'm running, it doesn't agree with my
Speaker:stomach and I didn't want to risk it.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. I mean, fair enough.
Speaker:Again, I haven't trained with it, but in Boston,
Speaker:I. Because it was really hot. I had planned
Speaker:to have a full pack of the salt stick
Speaker:chews.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yes.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And, then got to the start line and was already
Speaker:sweating, walking to the start line and I was like, okay, I
Speaker:need more than this. So took the Gatorade at
Speaker:every station and
Speaker:was lucky that it was. I was fine, I think, because I
Speaker:slowed right down during the water. So I wasn't trying
Speaker:to chuck back a cup of
Speaker:Gatorade at, pace.
Speaker:>> Andy: Okay.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Which helped bring the heart rate down just as I was drinking it. And I think that
Speaker:helps kind of, overall, amazing.
Speaker:>> Andy: So, my question to you is, like, Boston, everyone I've
Speaker:spoken to about Boston, they said it was quite
Speaker:warm, unprecedented temperatures at that time of
Speaker:year. Over there, in the seventies. Would you.
Speaker:>> Charlie: I was hearing somebody told me,
Speaker:the end, that it was real. Feel 28 in the
Speaker:sun.
Speaker:>> Andy: Wow.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Cause there's no shade on the course, but it was actually around
Speaker:21, 22. Measuring kind of
Speaker:on your phone.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah. But direct sunlight is
Speaker:a nightmare, so, I mean, fair play
Speaker:to you. And you got on well with the salt sticks out there.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. So I had only tried them once in
Speaker:training and they were kind of fine. I tried the
Speaker:watermelon flavour and then, you
Speaker:know, there's all these pop ups and m. It wasn't at the
Speaker:expo, but I just tasted one of the,
Speaker:I think it was like the sour apple and really liked the flavour. So I was like, I'm
Speaker:just gonna take these with me.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yes.
Speaker:>> Charlie: If I feel like I need them, I'll have them. And by
Speaker:math three, I was like, I'm gonna try these. And, yeah,
Speaker:ate the whole pack and was totally fine. Amazing with those. And
Speaker:then I took those alongside precision
Speaker:fuel and hydration
Speaker:gels, which I think tastes really good. I don't know if you've ever tried
Speaker:this.
Speaker:>> Andy: I have. And you know what, precision fuel and
Speaker:hydration, I rate highly. So I took
Speaker:their, I had their electrolyte tabs. You know,
Speaker:you can get them in the tubes. So I had those one a day,
Speaker:leading up to the race, because as a salty
Speaker:sweater, I wanted to make sure I was topped up. I
Speaker:have had the gel. They taste amazing. Again, they
Speaker:didn't quite settle in my stomach, so I didn't want to risk it.
Speaker:But their electrolyte
Speaker:products, I've used loads over the last
Speaker:couple of years. The tabs usually and the powder.
Speaker:and I highly rate them because they cater for
Speaker:a multitude of people. You can get the low content
Speaker:and the high content of sodium, and I usually
Speaker:get, all the electrolytes, I should say. And I usually go for the high content.
Speaker:so if you are a salty and a heavy sweater, they've got you
Speaker:covered. If you're a light sweater, they've got you covered. So,
Speaker:yeah, I do rate their stuff a lot.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, I use their, they've got a carbon
Speaker:electrolyte drink mix which I used the
Speaker:night before. And then I actually also had
Speaker:it on the way to the start line, and I had a
Speaker:handheld for the first 5 miles that I just sipped
Speaker:on to make sure I kind of front loaded
Speaker:my carbs and got some extra salt in.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Amazing. And then I used, yeah, I used the
Speaker:1500 milligrammes sodium tabs that
Speaker:they've got in the summer, and then in the winter, I tend to use the,
Speaker:like, lower.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yes, I think it's
Speaker:amazing.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. I think what's been hard, especially in Boston,
Speaker:for a lot of people, was that we've trained all winter. I think
Speaker:if that's, we had those temperatures in, you know, an
Speaker:autumn race, we would be a lot more acclimatised. But
Speaker:this has been one of the wettest, most miserable
Speaker:winters I can remember. So my runs,
Speaker:I've been absolutely bundled up, battling the rain and
Speaker:floods and, and then to have this bluebird
Speaker:day where I was like, this is lovely to spectate. This is
Speaker:not what I want to run my goal race in, but,
Speaker:>> Andy: It'S always the risk of a spring marathon, isn't it? You kind
Speaker:of, you love to see people have dates as
Speaker:close to the beginning of April as possible.
Speaker:Not towards the end of April, because the risk then
Speaker:becomes higher that it will be hotter. But obviously, I know
Speaker:with Boston, and I've heard and I've seen over the years, weather
Speaker:can be so variable over there, you know, you
Speaker:see torrential rain, scorching heat, headwind,
Speaker:tailwind. You never know, do you? So,
Speaker:yeah, it's part of the fun, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:But, I totally agree. Getting through the summer, doing that in the
Speaker:autumn is way easier. We are more
Speaker:acclimatised coming out of this wet and windy
Speaker:winter we've had. yeah, we're not geared up for the heat
Speaker:yet.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. So I have a couple more questions about
Speaker:your mortons.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yes.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Not to get too personal, but where do you
Speaker:carry them? I mean, I have my pockets
Speaker:absolutely stuffed to the gills with them. I have to take
Speaker:about eight gels in the kind of time I'm running.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yes.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So where are you as a pretty fast runner
Speaker:carrying your gels?
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, in the pockets of my shorts, actually.
Speaker:So I've got these shorts that have pockets on
Speaker:the legs on the outside. and I stuff
Speaker:them in there and I had six gels in the
Speaker:one side and I had my ketone IQ in the
Speaker:other side in a soft flask and I had my starting gel
Speaker:in there as well. So I knew that when I was at the start and I looked down, I
Speaker:was like, oh yeah, that's the gel I need to have ten minutes before. But, the
Speaker:rest were in the side pocket and they're great. they're
Speaker:some say sky shorts and I've just used them for the last couple
Speaker:of marathons now and I'm a bit
Speaker:of an awkward size. So with like flip belts and stuff, as much
Speaker:as they are incredible. Like I've got two.
Speaker:One is slightly too big and bounces around, the other's slightly
Speaker:too tight. so as you know, like if you like
Speaker:run with something too tight, you get stomach issues. It's not
Speaker:fun. So.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Especially after a car blade.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yes, absolutely. So pockets for me on the side of the
Speaker:shorts and that's all I need. It's amazing.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Okay, great. So tell us more about this ketones
Speaker:IQ. You said you were kind of testing it out. Have you been using it
Speaker:in training?
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, they're really interesting ones. So it's kind of, I'm
Speaker:seeing it a lot over social media. Ketone. so from what
Speaker:I gather, it's effectively a third fuel source
Speaker:that we can use in terms of, with these
Speaker:joule. I'm going to get the wording wrong, but with these gels
Speaker:now that have, fructose and glucose, I think
Speaker:if that's the right way. Either way, it's two ways of getting.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Energy into two different types of carbs. That's it.
Speaker:>> Andy: so, and obviously that's the way that we can get on more
Speaker:carbs per hour. And then with m the ketone IQ,
Speaker:although it is of caffeine free and
Speaker:calorie free, effectively it's fuel for your brain,
Speaker:it switches you on and, it's
Speaker:unbelievable. I would be out there and
Speaker:you would have a little bit of it and then the mental
Speaker:clarity I often find that I get, it just
Speaker:completely shakes you out of any
Speaker:grogginess or tiredness and it really
Speaker:mentally focuses you. And they sent me some,
Speaker:the company sent me some to test, six weeks before
Speaker:London, seven weeks actually. So I got to test
Speaker:it on the last few long runs that
Speaker:I could manage to do and I just found
Speaker:it to be amazing. And so my plan was to have it
Speaker:at 45 minutes and 1 hour 30 and then two
Speaker:hour 15 or whatever in the
Speaker:marathon. I got it down on the 45 and
Speaker:130. and again just
Speaker:running, I was just like switched on. And around the 130 mark
Speaker:is actually where I attempted to negative split the
Speaker:race and it really just gave me the focus that I needed
Speaker:to try it. But sadly by the time I got to 2
Speaker:hours 15, I was feeling a bit nauseous and it just
Speaker:didn't, didn't work or go down, sadly. But yeah,
Speaker:I'm keen to use it more
Speaker:in the summer. Now you have a shot of it before a
Speaker:workout or before a run and it just,
Speaker:yeah, it gets, it's light.
Speaker:>> Charlie: You feel like there is that switch.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, massively. It's like having caffeine but not having caffeine,
Speaker:if that makes sense. so I'm really keen to do
Speaker:more testing. So I gave them my feedback. I've
Speaker:provided everything that I can. I've said when it works really well, when I don't feel,
Speaker:I get ah, the effect from it that I do another times.
Speaker:And now I'm going into some summer, speed work.
Speaker:So yeah, I'm keen to test it
Speaker:more.
Speaker:>> Charlie: How does your fueling in general change when you're
Speaker:doing kind of speed workouts
Speaker:versus the kind of endurance runs that you
Speaker:obviously do a lot more in terms of marathon training?
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, with speed. So I do a lot of
Speaker:my runs early morning because I've got three kids so
Speaker:I get the school run done in the morning so
Speaker:I have to get up quite early. So usually if it's
Speaker:an early morning, easy or steady run, I won't fuel,
Speaker:I'll just get up and go. If it's a session I'll often
Speaker:just, if I'm honest with you, if I've got time I might
Speaker:have a slice of bread with chocolate spread on it, but
Speaker:often I don't have time so I'll just take a gel with me or
Speaker:some maltodextrin. so now in the summer
Speaker:I'm going to be, I usually do a 15 minutes warm up,
Speaker:then my session 15 minutes cool down. So
Speaker:I have spoken to Michael, the owner
Speaker:of Ketone IQ, had a chat with him about it, asked him when he
Speaker:uses it. and I'm now going to be having that
Speaker:before a session, I'll do my warm up.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Just that.
Speaker:>> Andy: Just that. So I will have a
Speaker:gel, or my m maltodextrin before the run in
Speaker:general, to get something in, but then before the session, we'll
Speaker:just have a shot of that. So that'll be in addition
Speaker:to what I have been doing. But I don't tend to have
Speaker:too much, to be honest with you, because I do have to get it done
Speaker:early. And it's bad enough waking up at 530, let
Speaker:alone 430, to let some food go down.
Speaker:>> Charlie: I know the feeling.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah. So it's, you know, that's what I'm going to be
Speaker:experimenting with.
Speaker:>> Charlie: M. Well, we'll have to get you back on the podcast to hear
Speaker:more about it at the end of the summer, see how it's all gone and what your
Speaker:experience is.
Speaker:>> Andy: That'd be great.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Of using it during marathon versus kind of
Speaker:the shorter, faster stuff.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah. The one thing I did do, I did it. I ran a
Speaker:five k a week before the marathon,
Speaker:just to sharpen up and off the
Speaker:back of all the illness and stuff, I managed to run an equal
Speaker:pb. And the one thing I did there, which I have never
Speaker:done before, ever, is I actually had a gel before
Speaker:my five k as well, which I used to
Speaker:suffer really badly with stomach cramps. What if I had any
Speaker:food in me for any race? that seems to have been
Speaker:sorted by posture work. So core work,
Speaker:upper back work to make sure that my chest is
Speaker:up and my stomach is okay, because when I would, like, be tired
Speaker:and hunch over, it would cramp up the diaphragm. And that's
Speaker:where it happened. So that was really interesting. And I
Speaker:felt the best I'd ever felt on a five k because I
Speaker:got that fuel in. So I think fueling is
Speaker:so neglected,
Speaker:by so many runners and so underappreciated as to
Speaker:what it can do. And I can guarantee you
Speaker:pro runners won't go into a race under fuelled,
Speaker:that's for sure, even if it's a five k. So, I mean,
Speaker:we're all individual, but we've got to find out what works for us. I'm
Speaker:hoping this ketone IQ is going to be a good
Speaker:addition.
Speaker:>> Charlie: yeah, I can't wait to hear more. I mean, I'm definitely
Speaker:a major advocate for fueling for
Speaker:everyone and training yourself to be
Speaker:able to take fuel and, you know,
Speaker:the earlier or the more practise you can
Speaker:get in terms of getting your fuel in
Speaker:before your short, easy runs
Speaker:the less time it usually takes for most people. I know
Speaker:that, as you say, digestion is such an
Speaker:individual thing. I use rice
Speaker:Krispies squares that my body seems to tolerate
Speaker:really well. How good, though? Aren't they easy carbs. And
Speaker:I can pretty much have that 15 minutes before I go for a
Speaker:run and I'm fine. So they are very
Speaker:helpful, though. My son has decided he likes them and
Speaker:notices the blue shiny wrappers.
Speaker:And so sometimes now I have to share the, roast Krispie or
Speaker:he's eating one at 05:45 a.m.. M. And I'm like, is
Speaker:this good parenting? But anyway, never
Speaker:mind. Kind of a breakfast cereal. But,
Speaker:so what is next for you? You said you're going to be working on some speed
Speaker:over the summer.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, I want to try and I'm going to
Speaker:probably. I'd like to. Okay. I'd like to run
Speaker:Abingdon marathon m in October. It's the marathon that I
Speaker:broke 3 hours out for the first time a few years back. It's one
Speaker:I want to revisit after London being absolutely
Speaker:incredible, I want to go back to something a bit lower
Speaker:key, that I can sleep in my own bed, drive down there,
Speaker:just make things a bit easier. so my focus
Speaker:for the next 16 weeks or so
Speaker:is going to be to work on that five and ten k speed. Because
Speaker:naturally, if we want to get faster in the marathon, it is
Speaker:important to work on that top end speed. So that's the goal. I've got a
Speaker:five k pb that I want to chip away at,
Speaker:and is, not relative to my ten k
Speaker:time whatsoever. As runners, we often find we have
Speaker:a distance that we're really good at and the distance that we're not so good at and the
Speaker:five k I'm not so good at, so I'm terrible.
Speaker:>> Charlie: My five k pace is basically the same as my half marathon.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ah. I'm not far off,
Speaker:so I think that's the goal. Just
Speaker:work on that over the summer. I don't like to do longer races
Speaker:over the summer. It's too hot, you know, and I just
Speaker:always think to myself, whatever you do in the summer, that's nice
Speaker:and warm. when you get to the autumn and winter, when
Speaker:it cools down, you're going to reap the rewards
Speaker:of all the hard work you've done. So it's
Speaker:just about being as consistent as I can over the summer so that I
Speaker:can go into the autumn feeling good.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And do you have any tips for people who like me who are
Speaker:also trying to get their five k to be
Speaker:a little bit faster than half marathon pace.
Speaker:>> Andy: Okay, well I'm going to be jump. okay yeah. I'm in the same
Speaker:boat obviously. So I'm having to push myself out of my
Speaker:comfort zone. So effectively
Speaker:my five k time is
Speaker:I split my five k
Speaker:time plus 9 seconds. Okay. So my five
Speaker:k time is 1621. My ten
Speaker:k time is 330. Zero. So I
Speaker:basically ran 216 thirties back to back.
Speaker:How I've only managed to run 9 seconds
Speaker:faster I have no idea. So the goal is really
Speaker:just to push the top end more, which I
Speaker:really don't like doing. I'm not good at that discomfort
Speaker:so much it does. I'm good at
Speaker:long slow suffering on marathon
Speaker:training. That's my favourite. I'm not good
Speaker:on that. Instant pain. Oh my word. I've got to hold
Speaker:this for another minute. So getting
Speaker:yourself out of your comfort zone, dropping into more
Speaker:five ks. What I have done in the past is
Speaker:just go for one five k a year. I'm
Speaker:trying to do three or four throughout the year so that I
Speaker:can start to learn to pace them better. I think
Speaker:as runners, if it's a distance we're not good at or we don't
Speaker:like often pacing can come into it
Speaker:and if we start to learn to pace it better
Speaker:we suddenly go oh actually that wasn't so bad.
Speaker:Maybe I could go a little bit faster next time.
Speaker:So that's a goal as well. And I think just,
Speaker:yeah, we've got to embrace those faster workouts
Speaker:and see if we can suffer a little bit better.
Speaker:That's I think the best advice I can give.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. And fuel for them it sounds like is going to be
Speaker:your strategy this summer as well.
Speaker:>> Andy: I think taking the gel before the marathon is something I've
Speaker:done for a while. But now having had a Morton calf gel
Speaker:before my last five k, that was a game changer. So I
Speaker:now know that I can do that again and I
Speaker:certainly will. And yeah, just being more
Speaker:mentally sharp now there's fuel on board. Usually what I
Speaker:do is have my last food about
Speaker:three to three and a half hours before a five k.
Speaker:So I actually feel when I get to the race my
Speaker:stomach feels good but I feel quite empty.
Speaker:and not the most energised. So now I'm hoping
Speaker:that I can do the three, three and a half hours. But then within
Speaker:the last half an hour, 20 minutes, ten
Speaker:minutes, have a gel and suddenly get that buzz from
Speaker:the caffeine and the carbs and. Yeah.
Speaker:Feel better.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Did you do caffeinated Morton's
Speaker:at all during marathon? You just use the.
Speaker:>> Andy: Just the normal ketones? Yeah, just.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:>> Andy: The ketones acted as the, as the caffeine
Speaker:sort of effect for me. I
Speaker:went for the caff gel, the caffeinated gel
Speaker:at, ah, the fifth one. and I was kind of
Speaker:already feeling sick. So it's not fair to blame it on that
Speaker:gel. But, I then was sick, all over
Speaker:the road, which was very unpleasant for everyone around me and
Speaker:I apologise to everyone that was there and the runners
Speaker:around me, but, I was already feeling sick. So I kind
Speaker:of, I was like, well, if I don't try,
Speaker:I'm going to hit the wall. If I do try and throw up, I'm going to hit
Speaker:the wall. So I really. I've got nothing to lose. So I tried
Speaker:and it didn't stay down. But, I do need to work on trying
Speaker:to have. Because at the end of the day, caffeine is,
Speaker:great for runners, you.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Know, as a great performance booster.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, absolutely. And so it's just one of those things I
Speaker:need to start practising with. Maybe alternating a normal and a
Speaker:calf, on each, each training run.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, I mean, I took my caffeinated
Speaker:gels to try and get the maximum boost.
Speaker:So an hour before, I wanted the
Speaker:peak caffeine in my, you know,
Speaker:bloodstream during Boston.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And that, I feel like, worked quite well. But I do find
Speaker:they're a bit more bitter, both the Morton and their
Speaker:precision fuel and hydration and other ones than the
Speaker:normal. So they, I often find they're a bit harder to
Speaker:tolerate in general. so I think
Speaker:for me, sort of almost again, somewhat front loading
Speaker:those. Yeah, was easier. So then it's a bit more
Speaker:pleasant, the gels that you're taking later on in the race.
Speaker:>> Andy: Absolutely, yeah. Something, something for me to try for sure. But no,
Speaker:you're right, you're right. Getting. I always find that
Speaker:not, you know, front loading the carbs
Speaker:is good whilst you're not feeling sick, whilst you're not too tired, whilst the
Speaker:heart rate's low in your body. Yeah, your body can,
Speaker:can digest better, then
Speaker:getting as much on as you can is great. Because then you know
Speaker:that if towards the end of the marathon, if you are feeling a bit sick but you know,
Speaker:you've got on a substantial amount of calories, then
Speaker:at least you know that you're going to get to the end.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. It's a bit of a reassurance, isn't it?
Speaker:>> Andy: Absolutely.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Okay, my last question for you. What did you
Speaker:have post race and how did you end up
Speaker:on the floor of the train? Did no one give you,
Speaker:if anyone saw Andy's instagram, he was
Speaker:like, squatting on the floor of the train on the way home.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah. I had. What did I have? so my
Speaker:cousin met me at the end of the
Speaker:race, and my wife followed closely
Speaker:behind her because she was out spectating. So as you walk
Speaker:through the marble arches at the end of, the mall
Speaker:at London, you end up in
Speaker:Leicester Square. Pick a trafalgar square.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Trafalgar Square, yeah.
Speaker:>> Andy: And then straight ahead of you is a pret. And
Speaker:I don't usually go to pret, but I went in there
Speaker:and my cousin bought me an egg mayo sandwich, which was so
Speaker:random, but I just wanted something that was
Speaker:not sweet. after all the gels, I don't want that.
Speaker:So I had an egg mayo sandwich and, that
Speaker:stayed down and I had a can of coke and that was amazing. And
Speaker:after that, I felt great. And I just, on the way
Speaker:home, snacked on whatever I had left in my bag,
Speaker:which was nothing. good. Packets of
Speaker:crisps, maybe some fruit in there. But at that moment
Speaker:in time, I really didn't care. And the train, well, that was a
Speaker:nightmare because GWR, great
Speaker:resting. railway cut the carriages
Speaker:down on the train from nine until five, so we
Speaker:actually had booked seats.
Speaker:So my wife said, go on, quick, quick, get on there and go and get
Speaker:our seats quick.
Speaker:>> Charlie: You just ran a marathon hobble onto the train.
Speaker:>> Andy: That's it. And I got on there and I walked down to my seats and they had
Speaker:the little green light saying, available. And I was like
Speaker:looking at my ticket going. And then someone
Speaker:literally came on the tannoy and said, we
Speaker:are not, there are no reserve seats on this train. We've,
Speaker:had to basically cancel them. We've got shorter carriages.
Speaker:So just. Yeah, all the seats were taken
Speaker:and, no one wanted to give a seat up.
Speaker:No. So we were out in the hall.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Sat on the floor.
Speaker:>> Andy: There were a few of us. There were a few of us. We were suffering
Speaker:together.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Great british hospitality or in escape.
Speaker:>> Andy: Absolutely.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Well, I'm sorry that that was the end to your race, but it sounds
Speaker:like maybe for next time, taking something in your drop
Speaker:bag. I don't know whether you took a drop back, but to get
Speaker:that protein and carbs post race might be a
Speaker:good idea.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, absolutely. because I didn't have any of that. I
Speaker:had my whole weekend in my drop bag. my cousin said, what should we get?
Speaker:And I was like, well, I'm a vegetarian, so.
Speaker:And prep didn't have the biggest selection of
Speaker:vegetarian, stuff. And I was like, what? Egg. That will do
Speaker:me.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And protein. Yeah, protein, yeah.
Speaker:>> Andy: Egg mayo sandwiches. That will do this. So that was the first thing. And then
Speaker:the can of coke. So that was as best as I could
Speaker:do. I tell you what I have been a bit of a sucker for
Speaker:is, And I know this is very random, but I do quite
Speaker:like, huel. Have you ever tried Huel?
Speaker:>> Charlie: I haven't tried it, but I'm sure everybody listening has heard of
Speaker:it.
Speaker:>> Andy: They do a chocolate protein shake, and it
Speaker:is unbelievably good. So I was hunting for
Speaker:one of those. but I wasn't as prepared
Speaker:this time. So, yeah, I'll have to make sure I am next
Speaker:time.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. I feel like my post race nutrition was
Speaker:horrible after Boston, and I really think
Speaker:both the kind of nutrition aspect and the hydration post
Speaker:race was terrible for me, and I do think that
Speaker:probably contributed to me feeling the
Speaker:effects of the race much longer. I flew home that night, which was
Speaker:also not my best idea. Went to work on
Speaker:Tuesday.
Speaker:>> Andy: Oh, wow.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And, yeah. So I think that I
Speaker:just didn't look after myself as much as I should have done, and
Speaker:therefore have been feeling the effects and the quads
Speaker:for, longer than I would like to.
Speaker:>> Andy: It's difficult, though. I mean, we've got to get back to work and
Speaker:stuff, and it's difficult sometimes to take time off, so. I know what
Speaker:you mean. Sometimes you've got to just get on those trains and planes
Speaker:and. And get back. But after a marathon,
Speaker:you know, I think both of us can say it's the last thing we want
Speaker:to do is be sat down and cramped up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Well, Andy, thanks so much. where can people find
Speaker:you and find your abingdon training and see how you get on with
Speaker:those ketones?
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah, absolutely. So, I'm basically
Speaker:fodrunner, which stands for Forest of Dean, fod
Speaker:runner. on YouTube, mainly.
Speaker:Instagram and TikTok are the three that I use
Speaker:the most.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Oh, I have to dig you out on TikTok. I don't really use TikTok very much,
Speaker:but I feel like I maybe should. I feel
Speaker:like it's. Maybe this makes me sound so
Speaker:old. I had always assumed it was just people dancing.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yes.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Actually, there's a whole running TikTok that I had no idea
Speaker:about until quite recently.
Speaker:>> Andy: Absolutely.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And the thing is rabbit hole for me.
Speaker:>> Andy: Yeah. I produce sort of some YouTube
Speaker:short form content and I thought, would, you know what, just
Speaker:pop it on TikTok.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Andy: And, Yeah, so we're doing that. We're trying anyway,
Speaker:well, give you.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Well, it was really nice to chat today and hopefully we'll get to meet
Speaker:up and go for a, well, I would say a run, but I'll try and
Speaker:keep up with you, I'm sure, on a very.
Speaker:>> Andy: No, it would be fantastic.
Speaker:>> Charlie: That was so great to speak to Andy and kind of
Speaker:learn all about how he feels for a sub three hour
Speaker:marathon. Now, I just wanted to kind of talk a little
Speaker:bit more about ketones.
Speaker:Now, ketones are small molecules that our
Speaker:body can use for fuel. We use
Speaker:two main fuel sources,
Speaker:carbohydrates and, fat. Ketones are
Speaker:the third energy source for our bodies that we can use
Speaker:during running. We make our own
Speaker:ketones when we follow a really low carbohydrate
Speaker:diet. That's when we go into something called
Speaker:ketosis and
Speaker:utilise ketones for the energy. But
Speaker:this can be a really slow process. It takes
Speaker:days to trigger this. And
Speaker:since we know that carbohydrates are, our
Speaker:body's preferred source of energy,
Speaker:it seems a little bit
Speaker:counterintuitive to then rely on
Speaker:ketones to fuel our body, given that it takes a very low
Speaker:carbohydrate diet to attain that.
Speaker:Some scientists have suggested that
Speaker:adding ketones, like ketone
Speaker:supplements in addition to carbohydrates when
Speaker:running can give you that third energy
Speaker:source. And the theory is that we can use
Speaker:both our own natural sources of fat. So our natural
Speaker:stores of fat, carbohydrates that we consume in our
Speaker:glycogen stores, plus ketones to
Speaker:benefit from these three fuel
Speaker:sources. So the proposed benefits
Speaker:are extra energy, more efficient energy,
Speaker:and the idea that maybe we'll be able to
Speaker:utilise our carbohydrate stores for longer because we've got
Speaker:this third energy source. So while there's
Speaker:some scientific rationale that sounds promising that
Speaker:ketones could be a good energy source, there isn't
Speaker:enough to back this up. And, it's really
Speaker:expensive. Andy was telling me that a box of the
Speaker:ketone IQ that he was using is 80 pounds.
Speaker:Now, we've already touched on the fact that fueling for your
Speaker:race can be expensive, especially in marathon training, when
Speaker:you've got weeks on, weeks of long runs. And, is
Speaker:the performance benefits that you may or may not see worth
Speaker:a 80 pounds for 2024 bottles,
Speaker:I'm not sure. He also said, and he said
Speaker:he's happy, he's very open, happy for me to talk about this,
Speaker:that where he's found the benefits is
Speaker:on longer runs in marathon
Speaker:training when he's also
Speaker:taken, or in shorter runs when he's also
Speaker:taken, a gel as well. So it's really hard to know
Speaker:whether it's actually a combination of the
Speaker:ketones with the carbs, or whether it's the carbs that he's added in
Speaker:that are making the changes to his five k, his
Speaker:performance benefits there, or whether it is the ketones in
Speaker:that state. So I'll be really interested to hear in
Speaker:the next few months how Andy's got on and whether he does
Speaker:think that the ketones are worth that
Speaker:money. In the meantime, I'm
Speaker:personally going to be sticking to carbs. There's plenty of scientific
Speaker:evidence that they work. I'm going to be having
Speaker:carbs before all of my runs, any
Speaker:run over 70 minutes. I'm going to be fueling on the run, and I'm going
Speaker:to really focus on carbohydrates and
Speaker:protein post run to boost that recovery. And, as
Speaker:it gets hotter, making sure I'm hydrated. We know a lot
Speaker:of the negative impacts on both our
Speaker:gut and performance. It comes from dehydration. So as we
Speaker:hopefully hit warmer months, that's something to focus
Speaker:on. Don't forget to use the
Speaker:code cookeatrun. Ten for 10%
Speaker:off at, xmiles. That's for all podcast listeners.
Speaker:and you can use that across the board on all of our
Speaker:nutrition products. And, I say ours like I wear first miles. I
Speaker:basically feel like I do now. that you can use the
Speaker:10% off on all of their products on the website.
Speaker:Let me know what you choose. Listen,
Speaker:next time for an episode with Jamie running, talking all
Speaker:about the sturker products, and I'm going to be trying a few of them in the next
Speaker:couple of weeks.
