Deep Dive: Pillar Performance
This time on Cook Eat Run, Charlie Watson is joined by Dr. Dan Plews from Pillar Performance to delve into the science behind micronutrients and their impact on athletic performance. Dan, the head of research at Pillar Performance, shares insights into how specific supplements like magnesium, omega-3s, and collagen can enhance recovery and performance for athletes.
Understanding Micronutrients
Dan explains the vital role of micronutrients such as magnesium and omega-3s in an athlete's diet. He highlights how these nutrients support various physiological processes, including muscle function, inflammation reduction, and overall metabolic health.
Magnesium: The Unsung Hero
Discover why magnesium is crucial for athletes, especially those losing it through sweat during high-intensity workouts. Dan discusses the benefits of Pillar Performance's triple magnesium blend designed to maximise absorption and minimise gastrointestinal distress.
Omega-3s for Optimal Recovery
Dan emphasises the importance of omega-3 supplementation, particularly for athletes, due to its anti-inflammatory properties and benefits for heart, brain, and muscle health. Learn how to integrate omega-3s into your routine effectively.
Collagen and Tendon Health
Explore the benefits of collagen supplementation for joint and tendon health. Dan explains how collagen peptides can improve tendon stiffness and force production, making it a valuable addition to an athlete's regimen.
Supplementation Strategies
Dan shares practical advice on how to incorporate these supplements into your daily routine, ensuring maximum benefit and absorption. He also discusses the importance of consistency and the right timing for each supplement.
Listen to the PILLAR Performance Podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-pillar-performance-podcast/id1657287702
https://open.spotify.com/show/61jzgXksYsWryVDHFF4lDs
Got fuelling and nutrition questions? Episode topic suggestions? - find Charlie online @therunnerbeans / www.therunnerbeans.com
Grab a copy of Charlie’s book ‘Cook Eat Run’
The Cook Eat Run Podcast is sponsored by XMiles - the One Stop Nutrition Shop - use discount code COOKEATRUN for 10% off this month’s featured products at Xmiles.co.uk
This podcast is proudly produced by Decibelle Creative decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative
Transcript
>> Charlie: Welcome to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X Miles, hosted by
Speaker:me, Charlie Watson. I'm a runner, a mum, an NHS
Speaker:dietitian and author of the recipe book for
Speaker:runners Cook Eat Run. I'm also a 16
Speaker:times marathoner and love nothing more than sharing what I've learned along
Speaker:the way through a lot of trial and error.
Speaker:Cook Eat Run is the go to podcast for running,
Speaker:nutrition training tips, marathon debriefs and
Speaker:more. I'm here to answer all your questions and fuel
Speaker:you with the knowledge you'll need to run faster, further and,
Speaker:and actually just to have more fun on the run. So whether you're
Speaker:training for an ultra, want to improve your marathon pb,
Speaker:or simply just get more out of your running, you're in the
Speaker:right place.
Speaker:So Dan, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker:you are from Pillar Performance. Can you
Speaker:tell me a little bit more about what
Speaker:Pillar for Performance does and your job role there?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, well, first thanks for having me Charlie.
Speaker:Yeah. So, I'm Dan Peluzi, as you say. I'm the head
Speaker:of research for Pillar Performance. So my main role
Speaker:is to help with the research
Speaker:around and around the products and the efficacy and
Speaker:make sure that it is actually
Speaker:effective and it does help the
Speaker:athletes that we give it to mainly. So we've just
Speaker:helped. We just had some research that's been done
Speaker:out of Australia, for example, in NRL players, where we looked
Speaker:at how the pillar performance omega 3s
Speaker:would increase the omega 3 index in
Speaker:rugby league players, for example. So that's just one example.
Speaker:And another thing is we're just currently looking
Speaker:for a PhD student to do a bit more research
Speaker:with the effects of magnesium and heart rate variability,
Speaker:how it might affect sleep, how the collagen might reduce
Speaker:injury, or, or how the omega 3s might
Speaker:reduce inflammation and muscle soreness. So I mean I'm
Speaker:not. My role isn't so much in the product
Speaker:development but it's more inside the
Speaker:producing research, white papers and
Speaker:publications around how the product
Speaker:works. Basically.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Amazing. How did you get into that? Is that, did you study sports
Speaker:science at university and then go down that route?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: So I'm not really, I'm not a nutritionist. ah,
Speaker:my background is in exercise physiology.
Speaker:So I've been working in the exercise physiology Space for
Speaker:a very long time and also actively
Speaker:coaching. So I did my PhD in heart rate
Speaker:variability which looked at the effects
Speaker:of basically how high variability can
Speaker:be used to either track positive or negative
Speaker:adaptation to Athletes and at the time I did that
Speaker:working with the New, Zealand rowing team. So I was quite fortunate
Speaker:that I was with the Olympic rowing team and I could do my research
Speaker:within these very high level, high performance
Speaker:players. and since then I've kept very active
Speaker:in the research Space. I work for Auckland
Speaker:University, Aut University, where I'm a
Speaker:senior researcher there and I supervise
Speaker:mostly postgraduate. So only masters and
Speaker:PhDs. and yeah, and since I finished my
Speaker:PhD you've got now 70 publications and
Speaker:4,500 citations in various
Speaker:things and it's Yeah, and that can be. The
Speaker:topics have been very varied. It can be to do with like
Speaker:carbohydrate periodization highway,
Speaker:variability training in the heat,
Speaker:durability. Yeah. So it's been,
Speaker:yeah, really, really exciting. And
Speaker:basically I got introduced because I also own another
Speaker:company, that's a coaching company.
Speaker:And one of my other coaches said, have you checked out this Pillar
Speaker:Performance? And Damien who, Damien Fitzpatrick,
Speaker:who's the CEO of Pilar, he was coming over to New
Speaker:Zealand for the Ironman and
Speaker:lots of my athletes were talking about Pillar and I was like,
Speaker:well let's just talk to them and see if I can get a bit of a discount
Speaker:for some of my athletes because they want it. So I
Speaker:got in touch with Damian and I met him when he came over to New Zealand.
Speaker:And you know you just have that automatic connection
Speaker:with someone and you know, we chewed the fat. We could have talked
Speaker:for hours around nutrition and micronutrition
Speaker:and performance. And as a result, Damien asked me, I would like to
Speaker:join the company as head of research. so that's how it
Speaker:all came about. Yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Wow. So that was that when they just had the
Speaker:magnesium or has that been.
Speaker:At what kind of stage did you get involved with them?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, I mean the magnesium has always been there, you know, the star
Speaker:product so to speak. But at that time, time I
Speaker:think, yeah, Omega 3 was around. it
Speaker:was mainly, it was mainly the Omega 3.
Speaker:The the the immune defence and the and the
Speaker:magnesium were the. With the main products at that time. So
Speaker:and then we also had something called elite calcium. Then I don't think we do it
Speaker:anymore, but I love that product. I've still got a bit of a stash and
Speaker:I'm just seeing it go down all the time. I'm hoping it
Speaker:will stick around but. Oh, we had the B12 then as
Speaker:well. So.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Okay.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: I had a few a Few products. But I think it was, it must have
Speaker:been about a year after, after the company started
Speaker:that I joined. Yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So what do you think about, you know, what was it about
Speaker:pillar performance that got your athletes and you
Speaker:obviously kind of excited about the products? Like what
Speaker:was the difference point with
Speaker:their products versus what
Speaker:else was available on the market?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, I mean I've been, I've been involved
Speaker:in, you know, training myself. For example,
Speaker:I've done Ironman triathlon my whole life. you
Speaker:know, I raised reasonably competitively and I've always been
Speaker:quite big in the micronutrition Space of taking my own supplements.
Speaker:But I always felt that it was this gap number
Speaker:one. It like I felt
Speaker:micronutrition came across as something for sick
Speaker:people almost. you know, and you would buy it, you'd
Speaker:have to go to a pharmacy to buy your micronutrition.
Speaker:And, and I think as athletes we don't really
Speaker:like that because we don't see ourselves as sick.
Speaker:And and, and the difference about Pillow was it was
Speaker:marketing it with, with other sports fuel. So it was, you know, you
Speaker:could get it with your carbohydrate gels, you could get it with
Speaker:your, with your energy drinks, with your protein powders. And it was kind
Speaker:of for the athlete where it was seen as this
Speaker:micronutrition as a subset of the macronutrition.
Speaker:but the most important thing was it was housed,
Speaker:in doses that are more appropriate to athletes as well.
Speaker:And it was more targeted for athletes and not targeted
Speaker:for sick people. And I think there was a real,
Speaker:gap in the market there. And I think
Speaker:that's what really, really enticed me. And I could see
Speaker:that, no one else was doing that. And I think it's really
Speaker:important that the athletes get high quality
Speaker:product, get it in the right doses and get
Speaker:it in the right way, you know, and it's not seen as something
Speaker:that's, that's, that's for, for sick people is,
Speaker:it's, it's for performance and it can really elevate your performance.
Speaker:And that's how it should be looked at. And that's why I, you know, that's why I really,
Speaker:I really enjoyed Pillow as well.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Do you mind if we rewind a little bit and just kind of. When you
Speaker:say micronutrients, what exactly are you talking
Speaker:about?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yes, so I guess, I guess micronutrients are
Speaker:the other smaller nutrients that
Speaker:are within food,
Speaker:but they're, they're quite hard to get. So if
Speaker:you talk about a macronutrient, a macronutrient would be
Speaker:fats, proteins and carbohydrates. Right. Which are quite,
Speaker:you know, everyone probably knows of those. But the
Speaker:micronutritions are ah, within foods, but
Speaker:they're, they're a smaller component. So, so things
Speaker:like magnesium would be a micronutrient, iron would be
Speaker:a micronutrient, B12 would be a micronutrient.
Speaker:so the macro micro. Right. It's not seen as in the global
Speaker:picture, but they are within of course, within all those macros.
Speaker:Right. So if you think about a piece of steak, the
Speaker:macro is the protein, but it's got
Speaker:creatine, it's got you know, it's got iron,
Speaker:it's got loads of other stuff in there. And those are the microcomponents and
Speaker:they're, and they're the things that can often be overlooked because they're
Speaker:in very, very specific foods and often our
Speaker:body will not produce them naturally. So
Speaker:magnesium is something for example that our bodies will not produce unless
Speaker:it is eaten. And it's used a lot in
Speaker:athletes. And we generally don't take enough
Speaker:food with it in because even in something
Speaker:that's quite high in magnesium, like a dark
Speaker:leafy vegetables, it's just you would have to eat
Speaker:so much of it to get the right amount in an athlete. so
Speaker:it's so that's kind of where we stand with the micronutrients, but
Speaker:that's kind of those smaller parts.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And so with the magnesium, what are the benefits for
Speaker:athletes of ensuring they've got adequate
Speaker:kind of, kind of supply of, of
Speaker:magnesium?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, so I mean magnesium is involved
Speaker:in, I mean many people don't know that a
Speaker:magnesium is such a critical
Speaker:micronutrient because it's in, it's actually a CO factor with more
Speaker:than 300 enzymes involved in like various
Speaker:physiological processes, processes in the human
Speaker:body. So things like protein synthesis,
Speaker:blood glucose, muscle and nerve function.
Speaker:So with that there's a lot of transcending things that come
Speaker:out of that. So it can be related to brain health,
Speaker:your stress and mood regulation, even things like
Speaker:chronic disease protection such as supporting your DNA
Speaker:repair and helping with oxidative stress.
Speaker:there's metabolic health, so it helps with
Speaker:homeostasis and insulin sensitivity. And there's
Speaker:also things with athletic performance. So there's also some evidence
Speaker:around electrolyte balance and being able to increase
Speaker:oxygen uptake during and total workout output, for
Speaker:example. So there's so many things that it helps
Speaker:with. And the big thing when it comes to an athletic
Speaker:standpoint is that, we tend to lose a lot as athletes.
Speaker:So the main way we use we lose it is we lose a
Speaker:lot of it via sweat. So if we're sweating a lot,
Speaker:we generally secrete magnesium. But
Speaker:also it's used a lot with high intensity exercise.
Speaker:So because of those enzymatic reactions that are
Speaker:associated with high intensity exercise. And of
Speaker:course the higher the intensity, the more things are, ah, moving
Speaker:faster, the more things, quicker things are
Speaker:churning through. You're using up a lot of magnesium.
Speaker:So, as athletes we need a lot of it. And of course we're
Speaker:not, unless we're eating it, we're not going to be getting any of it.
Speaker:So we talk about typical daily
Speaker:recommendations. Like for men it's between 400 and
Speaker:420 milligrammes per day.
Speaker:women 310 to 320. But with
Speaker:athletes, for example, you could be talking between 500
Speaker:to 800. So we do need quite, quite a bit
Speaker:more. yeah, so they're kind of
Speaker:the big roles of magnesium.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And so I think a lot of people or lots
Speaker:of runners use magnesium and have kind of a
Speaker:magnesium bath or maybe like a spray to put on their
Speaker:muscles. What would be the difference
Speaker:in taking it orally and having
Speaker:it versus kind of transdermally?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So unfortunately,
Speaker:transdermally, the
Speaker:research between transdermal absorption of
Speaker:magnesium isn't that good. So I mean, I
Speaker:don't want to say it's a total waste of time, but it's getting
Speaker:towards that point.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Don't take away my lovely salt baths then.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know what, like I've got m.
Speaker:My wife puts magnesium in the kids baths every night and
Speaker:I do it. I'm just like, yeah, you know.
Speaker:>> Charlie: It'S a nice little addition maybe
Speaker:alongside.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Overall and as always with these things. Right.
Speaker:Is, it do no harm. It's definitely not going to be doing you
Speaker:any harm to put magnesium and who
Speaker:knows, maybe a little bit of benefit, but it's not really very well
Speaker:absorbed transdermally. So you
Speaker:really want to be, you know, do both. You know,
Speaker:I wouldn't do one, I wouldn't say if you're going to
Speaker:do just one, I would do it orally. But you're fine
Speaker:to do both. Totally.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And so some people,
Speaker:certainly my experience is some
Speaker:people get an upset stomach from too much oral.
Speaker:Magnesium is the pillar performance
Speaker:magnesium kind of designed to be well tolerated. Is
Speaker:it a different type of magnesium than some of the other
Speaker:magnesiums that I mean we see it in the
Speaker:hospital and lots of patients that I have
Speaker:then are taking it oral magnesium
Speaker:and then have some stomach problems basically.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, so I mean m. Typically
Speaker:the, it's the, I think it's
Speaker:the citrate that can cause a little bit of,
Speaker:has a laxative effect, a bit of
Speaker:a sore stomach. So yeah, like you don't want
Speaker:to be taking a pure citrate for example because
Speaker:especially in high doses. But a pillar,
Speaker:our magnesium is called triple magnesium because it has a
Speaker:chelate, a glycinate and a citrate
Speaker:in there and they all have slightly different
Speaker:properties. So like chelate is bound to
Speaker:it's bound to amino acids. So it's very highly
Speaker:readily available. glycinate is
Speaker:probably, if you're going to take one only
Speaker:magnesium, it would be the one that I would take. It has the ah, highest
Speaker:bioavailability, and it's also the one
Speaker:that's the kind of the calming effect. So the
Speaker:one that's very good before
Speaker:sleep, it has a good synthesis with
Speaker:neurotransmitters like gaba. So it's that kind of, that very
Speaker:calming magnesium that's very good
Speaker:for taking prior to sleep, for example, which is
Speaker:why we say take the magnesium one hour
Speaker:before sleep and then we've got the citrate and the citrate is
Speaker:one that's also easily absorbed in the GI
Speaker:tract, and it goes very easily into the bloodstream.
Speaker:So the reason we have the three is
Speaker:because the bioavailability
Speaker:absorption is everything and we're trying to make the
Speaker:high, we're trying to hit all of the right parts because
Speaker:they're all doing very slightly different things. But also we
Speaker:want to make sure that it's very easily absorbed. So that's
Speaker:why we have the three within one
Speaker:product.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And is the recommendation for kind of daily dosing or
Speaker:is it like if you're marathon training, you want to have it
Speaker:particularly when you are ah, having you know,
Speaker:kind of got your peak weeks or race week. Or is it that
Speaker:actually we benefit from the kind of the
Speaker:buildup of regular pre
Speaker:bed?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's a great
Speaker:question. So the you definitely want to be taking
Speaker:magnesium all year round regardless. but
Speaker:I would say the more the bigger change is in
Speaker:the is in the dosage. So.
Speaker:And the dosage should probably be more dependent
Speaker:on what you're doing in the day.
Speaker:So if you're, for example, if you're in the heat, if
Speaker:you're in a very hot climate, you might want to do, you might want to take
Speaker:maybe three scoops or two scoops of the
Speaker:triple magnesium. Whereas if you're like in a cool climate, you're
Speaker:not exercising that much and you're just doing a general baseline,
Speaker:you might just take one scoop a day. But say you're changing
Speaker:what you're doing. A lot of high intensity, you're in the sauna a lot,
Speaker:you're in a hot environment, you're sweating a lot and you could go to
Speaker:double the amount or even triple the amount, just depending
Speaker:on, yeah, just very dependent on that time. But
Speaker:I think you don't want to never do magnesium
Speaker:because the research is quite clear that
Speaker:most athletes are not sufficient in
Speaker:magnesium. so you want to be doing it all year round. But just how
Speaker:much you vary that dosage. So in a
Speaker:big build I would be looking at doing two to three scoops a
Speaker:day. and I would also be looking to almost break that
Speaker:up a little bit. So you might do one and a half in the morning, one and a half
Speaker:in the evening because that helps with some of the absorption as
Speaker:well. So I mean typically my routine
Speaker:is I do it once a day and I'll take two
Speaker:to two scoops mainly and I'll do it at
Speaker:night. I go to the sauna and then I'll have what just as I come out the
Speaker:sauna, just about an hour before bed.
Speaker:>> Charlie: That sounds like a nice bedtime routine. Certainly
Speaker:with the weather here at the moment.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, it's not bad. I mean you can also, I mean it's great. You can
Speaker:put it in smoothies, the triple
Speaker:magnesium, you can put it in in smoothies.
Speaker:my kids also really enjoy it and I put it in like Greek
Speaker:yoghurt and mix it around for them and they love it. So
Speaker:it's yeah, it's, it's very, very
Speaker:diverse.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So there's no kind of harm in, you know, different
Speaker:ages taking it. It's not, ah, something that you
Speaker:only want to Recommend to over 18s or anything like that?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: No, no, definitely not. And it's one of those
Speaker:things, that it's very hard to do. I mean apart from
Speaker:possibly some GI distress
Speaker:in a few people with very high dosages, it's quite
Speaker:hard to overdo it because as you say you're not going to do any long term effects. The
Speaker:worst that can Happen is you might get a bit of a sore stomach,
Speaker:but you can't really, there's nothing that's going
Speaker:to be sinister that happens with taking
Speaker:magnesium.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Okay, you've convinced me. I'm going to take some before I
Speaker:go to bed this evening.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, you should definitely.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So you mentioned the other, some of the other products that you've got available are,
Speaker:ah, the Omega threes. Is that
Speaker:something again that you'd recommend to all athletes
Speaker:or if people are getting their
Speaker:amigas getting, you know, having oily fish a couple
Speaker:of times a week, is that enough?
Speaker:Who is this, this kind of targeted at?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, so with, I mean
Speaker:I think when it comes to supplement, and I know
Speaker:I sit here with a degree of bias of course, but
Speaker:we'll just discount that. I think
Speaker:the two micronutrients with the most
Speaker:evidence around them for benefit
Speaker:is magnesium and omega 3s. And that's
Speaker:the reason that
Speaker:there are gold products, right, because we
Speaker:know that there's a lot of heavy research behind
Speaker:them. But when it comes to omega 3s,
Speaker:again I think
Speaker:it depends on what your omega 3 index
Speaker:is. So you can now, we're now at the
Speaker:ability where you can measure your omega 3 index, for
Speaker:example. so basically omega 3 index, it looks at the
Speaker:amount of omega 3s in the red blood cells, and it can be
Speaker:done from a very simple fingertip blood sample. So you can
Speaker:actually look at a whole battery of test just from
Speaker:one one sample. generally though what
Speaker:we find, and there was just some research, it's the same
Speaker:research that I talked about before was that
Speaker:we tested these nrl, these rugby league players
Speaker:for example. And for an Amiga,
Speaker:Omega 3s to have a protective and beneficial
Speaker:effect, you need to be over 8%. And even
Speaker:in these NRL players who are all reporting to,
Speaker:taking some supplements, they were talking, they were all reported to have
Speaker:oily fish, they were way below the
Speaker:recommended target. So it was more like 3,
Speaker:3 to 3 to 4% and
Speaker:really. And you need to be over 8% for it to have an
Speaker:effect. So
Speaker:even though many people think they have a lot of
Speaker:oily fish and supplement, the actual
Speaker:amount is way beyond
Speaker:what many people will realise. So yes, I would say
Speaker:that everyone should be taking omega 3s every
Speaker:day, for a number of reasons because there's so many
Speaker:benefits from the EPA being anti
Speaker:inflammatory from the DHA to having some
Speaker:effects in the heart, the muscle and the brain,
Speaker:just a great benefit for
Speaker:athletic recovery. But again, it's dependent on the
Speaker:amount. So if you're very high in the omega
Speaker:3 index, so say you're already somebody who is above
Speaker:8%, you could probably get away with taking three caps
Speaker:a day and you'll be totally fine because you can nicely maintain
Speaker:that. But if you're someone who's on the very low end and
Speaker:you're like in the or you're someone who has
Speaker:a very, a diet that is very high in
Speaker:omega sixes, so eating a lot of processed foods
Speaker:and you're not getting, you're not getting, you're just not eating
Speaker:a very whole, whole diet, you probably benefit from taking
Speaker:almost double the amount. So maybe 5,000 milligrammes
Speaker:per day. So the minimum anyone would want would be a thousand
Speaker:milligrammes a day high. The upper end will be around the
Speaker:5,000.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And so how do people find that out? They go and schedule a, ah, kind of
Speaker:a blood test. Or do you think you just kind of can
Speaker:look at your diet and think actually I probably am on
Speaker:the more processed seed oils, those kind
Speaker:of side of things.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: So yeah, there's definitely a
Speaker:degree of that where you can, I think and you
Speaker:intuitively know, I mean at Pillar we're just working
Speaker:with a company called AmigaQuant to try and build our
Speaker:own like Pillar testing for testing ability.
Speaker:So we can actually test people's Amiga 3s. I mean
Speaker:that would particularly be the case in like
Speaker:Australia. Australia, whether we get to Europe at some point,
Speaker:hopefully that would be the case. But like I
Speaker:say at the moment, I did the test the other week and it's as simple
Speaker:as they send over the package. You, it's a fingertip
Speaker:blood sample, you.it on some paper, you put it
Speaker:in a package that's there, that's a pre posted
Speaker:package that's sent with you and you post it away and you get
Speaker:your results. and it's really simple and effective.
Speaker:So. But again it's one of those things that it's hard to
Speaker:overdo the Omega 3s. You're not going to, there's really
Speaker:no downside to that.
Speaker:>> Charlie: is there any recommendations in terms of again like you mentioned that
Speaker:it's beneficial for recovery. So is this something that we should
Speaker:be taking after our workout or does it not really
Speaker:matter? Can you have it, you know, my
Speaker:supplements and buy my kettle so that when I make my cup of tea in the
Speaker:morning I like, you know, I take them
Speaker:then have my cup of tea so that I don't forget.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. So let's
Speaker:just before we get into that, I'll just take a little bit of a step
Speaker:back to talk a little bit more about the
Speaker:Omega 3. So Omega 3s, they're made up of
Speaker:two different types of Omega 3. So. Well, two
Speaker:different types kind of. There's the EPA and
Speaker:there's the dha. So they are quite
Speaker:different. So one is that they're made up of a different number of
Speaker:carbons, they have a different number of bonds associated with
Speaker:them. But what's more important is that they're
Speaker:very specific to where they
Speaker:target. So the EPA for example, it's
Speaker:more targeted at the vascular system. So it goes into the
Speaker:blood, it's more around the vascular system.
Speaker:whereas the DHA is, it's more
Speaker:for, it's more targeted at the more excitable cells.
Speaker:So that means that things like the muscle, the
Speaker:brain, the heart, that's where it
Speaker:targets. so
Speaker:when you're looking at athletic recovery,
Speaker:the two different things so you can think of the
Speaker:EPA is more
Speaker:reducing the, reducing the amount of
Speaker:soreness at the time of
Speaker:exercise, whereas a DHA
Speaker:is kind of more of a solvent. So
Speaker:it's quickening the recovery from
Speaker:exercise. and there's
Speaker:also the idea that we have. So
Speaker:the EPA for example is anti
Speaker:inflammatory and then. But you also need some pro
Speaker:inflammatory stuff within your, within your diet. So
Speaker:Omega 6 is for example is pro inflammatory. Of course we want pro
Speaker:inflammatory because that's part of the training response.
Speaker:So the reason I'm saying this is because the
Speaker:loading period therefore of what you're trying to achieve
Speaker:is quite different. So you'll get
Speaker:quite big changes in your EPA and
Speaker:some of the more vascular responses quite quickly. So you
Speaker:could do that within 10 days. But the more
Speaker:DHA stuff, so the more, the more
Speaker:excitable cells that's associated with the muscle, the
Speaker:heart, that probably takes a lot longer and you could be talking
Speaker:up to five weeks. So before
Speaker:we talk about when you should take them, we need to talk about the length of time you
Speaker:need to take them for. Right. You do need quite a long
Speaker:loading period. and of course they're both really important for
Speaker:athletes. So you want your DHA to be high and you want your EPA to
Speaker:be high. but when it comes to taking them, you want a long period
Speaker:of time and when you do take them,
Speaker:you want to take them with food. That's the most important
Speaker:thing because that helps the absorption. So it's very
Speaker:different to a lot of other micronutrients. So things like B12, it
Speaker:probably doesn't matter that much. But because it's you know, you want
Speaker:it to be, it's a fat basically. So you don't want to absorb
Speaker:with. You want to be highly absorbable, which means you
Speaker:need to take it with food. So you'd want to take it with your lunch, for
Speaker:example, or with your breakfast. You don't take it first thing in the
Speaker:morning with coffee on an empty stomach. That would be, that would
Speaker:really affect the absorption.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Noted.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Well, have I just. Have you been
Speaker:taking them first thing in the morning or an empty stomach?
Speaker:>> Charlie: Absolutely.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: It will make a massive difference as well. It's quite, I
Speaker:mean in the research that we've done,
Speaker:you know, we can have two people and we can have
Speaker:a high, response. So we can measure
Speaker:their omega 3 index, for example,
Speaker:and you can have one person who might go from 3
Speaker:to 10% and you can have one person who Might go
Speaker:from 3 to 5%. And that
Speaker:difference usually comes from when they're taking their Omega 3s. The
Speaker:smaller difference is when they're not taking it with food. So you really need
Speaker:to,
Speaker:>> Charlie: Change my routine.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Otherwise,
Speaker:otherwise you're wasting, you're almost wasting your money.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. Is that so you kind of touched on the
Speaker:fact that there's a kind of the benefits for the heart and
Speaker:the brain. I've seen some research that looks at kind
Speaker:of Alzheimer's and dementia and omega 3
Speaker:supplementing. Is there
Speaker:an age where it kind of becomes more
Speaker:beneficial or more crucial? Or is it a kind of a case
Speaker:of if we start this early, then we're going to
Speaker:obviously get the kind of athletic benefits but also
Speaker:the longer term protection in terms of
Speaker:heart and brain health?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think the sooner the better really.
Speaker:Because by the time you get old and you start
Speaker:taking it, it's almost a little bit too little too late. Of course you want to be taking
Speaker:it as you get, as you age as well, but you definitely want to be taking in your
Speaker:younger years, particularly through kind of that
Speaker:middle, middle age, you know, like
Speaker:30, you know, 30 to 40 time when there's lots
Speaker:of changes going on. You definitely want to be taking it,
Speaker:throughout that, so, yeah, good to know.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Okay, I need to change my routine and yeah,
Speaker:definitely try and encourage my husband to take it more regularly.
Speaker:so another of the products that you've got on
Speaker:that's coming new to Xmile. So the
Speaker:Ultra Amigas is not launched yet, or it
Speaker:should have launched by the time this podcast goes out. But is the
Speaker:collagen. can you talk a little bit more about
Speaker:the product and again, kind of
Speaker:why athletes might want to be
Speaker:supplementing with collagen?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, for sure. So, let's. So,
Speaker:collagen. So collagen. many people will think,
Speaker:okay, there's collagen and there's like, so there's collagen
Speaker:and then there's different types of
Speaker:collagen. So, there's gelatin
Speaker:and there's collagen peptides. Both are
Speaker:collagen. But the main difference is that the
Speaker:collagen peptides is basically
Speaker:chopped up into very, very
Speaker:small pieces, so it's made more
Speaker:bio readily available. And collagen is
Speaker:basically the stuff that's around all your connective
Speaker:tissues, so around the ligaments, around the joints,
Speaker:and it's, and it's what's basically holding
Speaker:everything together. And as we age and we
Speaker:use. We use them a lot through exercise,
Speaker:we lose a lot of collagen. So, so
Speaker:there's been some great research and there's been stuff done
Speaker:by, a researcher called Keith Barr that shows that,
Speaker:you know, regular collagen,
Speaker:taking a collagen can really help the upregulation and
Speaker:the resynthesis of collagen around the joints and the ligaments,
Speaker:which is protective for injury risk.
Speaker:But it's also very important for
Speaker:increases in lean muscle mass, and
Speaker:it's very important for increases in,
Speaker:tendon integrity. And the reason tendon integrity
Speaker:is so important is because
Speaker:the integrity and the stiffness of your
Speaker:tendons is highly related
Speaker:to force production. So if you have a very
Speaker:stiff and strong tendon, it means that you
Speaker:can basically produce more force. So you imagine
Speaker:how that means for jumping, for running, for
Speaker:any. All of those kind of more plyometric
Speaker:movements. It means that you're basically, you're getting a
Speaker:lot more force, a lot more efficiency
Speaker:in your stride every time you. Your foot hits the
Speaker:ground. If you think about it, it's like the tendon is
Speaker:attached to the end of the muscle, right? So if you imagine you have a
Speaker:really. And the. Basically the muscle shortens really quickly,
Speaker:and then the tendons pulling on the. On the joint
Speaker:or the other side of it, which is causing the movement. If you
Speaker:imagine that that tendon is very strong and stiff, rather than
Speaker:a floppy, wobbly tendon, you imagine now
Speaker:when you shorten that Muscle, a floppy one's not going to have the
Speaker:same jolt on the, on the bone as a
Speaker:strong one would. And that's one of the things that, the
Speaker:collagen is doing. And with
Speaker:pillar R1 is from a company called
Speaker:Gelita and Gelita, they
Speaker:devised a very specific collagen
Speaker:called tender for that is
Speaker:targeted towards the, ligaments and the
Speaker:tendons specifically for athletic performance. So you
Speaker:will see a lot of different collagens out there within the beauty
Speaker:realm, you know, for your skin, for your hair, for your
Speaker:nails, of course, very important. But, you know,
Speaker:it's a very, it's very specific and
Speaker:it's. And it's designed in such a way to target those areas.
Speaker:Whereas the, the, the pillar one is very
Speaker:specifically designed tender for athletes to
Speaker:very specifically target those areas.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And so taking it orally, it's still going to be
Speaker:available within your body for it to be able to
Speaker:be used for those processes.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, it is, exactly. And, the collagen
Speaker:is quite different to what we were just talking about with the Omega
Speaker:3s. It's much quicker. So, you know, you'll be
Speaker:seeing, you'll be seeing some regulation in the
Speaker:collagen synthesis is in a few days of taking
Speaker:collagen. so typically the research shows that
Speaker:you want about 15 milligrammes per day. but it's
Speaker:also, and I think this is where a lot of confusion can
Speaker:often happen is that it's also. It's
Speaker:very different. Even though it is a
Speaker:protein, it's, it's not a full
Speaker:protein. So, yeah, so it's made up
Speaker:of, so like collagen, for example, it's made
Speaker:up of glycine, it's made of proline, it's made up of,
Speaker:hydroxyproline. And it's not a full
Speaker:protein, whereas a whey protein is a full protein. And
Speaker:it's very different. It comes from, it comes from cheat. Like comes from the
Speaker:products from cheese and milk. Right. But it is a complete
Speaker:protein. So it contains all of those
Speaker:BCAAs, like Leucine, for example, which is a
Speaker:very important one for recovery. Whereas the
Speaker:collagen, it's just from those connective tissues. So you
Speaker:really do want to take them both. from a
Speaker:recovery and athletic standpoint, you wouldn't take one or the other. You have to
Speaker:take them both because they're doing very specific things. The whey
Speaker:protein is more of kind of a. It stimulates muscle
Speaker:growth and repair, for example, and it helps recovery in that Side,
Speaker:whereas the collagen points to your joint health and
Speaker:your repair of the cartilage.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And I think I read some research that suggested that you want to
Speaker:be taking the collagen sort of before maybe like an
Speaker:hour, 45 minutes before your
Speaker:workouts. Is that something you would
Speaker:advocate for or is your research saying,
Speaker:saying differently?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yes, I mean, most of the research is
Speaker:taken in after. Okay, after the, after the
Speaker:research, after the, exercise. But I always say this to
Speaker:my athletes. I'm like, the most important thing
Speaker:is that you take it regularly. You need to take it every
Speaker:day. And that means you need to have it
Speaker:as part of your routine. So wherever
Speaker:that sits to make sure that you take it every
Speaker:day. that's the most important thing. The most ideal time
Speaker:would be, you know, just, just after you're, just
Speaker:after your exercise. You know, you can put it with. If you're doing some hard
Speaker:exercise, you're having a protein shake and you could put your
Speaker:collagen inside that with your protein shake, that would be great.
Speaker:But if you forgetful and you're not doing a protein shake every day
Speaker:and you miss it, that's not as good as taking a sub
Speaker:optimal time. So, for example, I take my collagen
Speaker:first thing in the morning when I wake up. I just put it, I just put it in
Speaker:my coffee, and have it that way. And that's
Speaker:a guaranteed way to make sure that I'll definitely take
Speaker:it. so it's not like, it doesn't
Speaker:matter so much. I know with protein we talk about taking it after
Speaker:exercise and it's, it's not, not so
Speaker:much the case with, collagens.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Okay. And there's no, no kind of downside
Speaker:in terms of absorption. If you did take
Speaker:them together in your smoothie, like your whey protein and your
Speaker:collagen protein, they're not going to.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Kind of interact because they're very different. They're
Speaker:very different. They're different amino acids. You know,
Speaker:there's like, they're very different things. And in fact, I would
Speaker:say it might even help some of the absorption.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Interesting. Okay, so again with the
Speaker:kind of age thing, we, that
Speaker:there's, we know that, you know, your skin gets saggy
Speaker:partly because of collagen as we grow
Speaker:older. is again, is there a benefit
Speaker:for kind of increasing dosage
Speaker:as people get older or is the research
Speaker:of.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Pure Collagen suggested suggests 15 grammes per
Speaker:day? So, yeah, but the 10 to 4
Speaker:is, you might. The one that we have at Pillar, we
Speaker:suggest that you can have a lower amount because it's very
Speaker:specifically engineered and designed to be, to have a small amount.
Speaker:But it won't do you any harm to take 15 grammes per
Speaker:day. I take 15 grammes per day of the collagen repair
Speaker:for example. but you wouldn't really want to go
Speaker:any more than that. I think it just even as you
Speaker:get older and you, it's kind of quite a
Speaker:set amount. you wouldn't need to go much more
Speaker:or any more than that. You just keep it quite unlike.
Speaker:It's a bit different to the omega 3 and the magnesium. You just keep it a
Speaker:bit more of a steady amount really.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And so you talked about kind of you've done some research with
Speaker:some rugby players what kind of putting you
Speaker:on the spot a little bit here. But what, you know, your research,
Speaker:is it mostly done on kind of elite
Speaker:male athletes or is there any differences in terms of
Speaker:supplementation for female
Speaker:athletes that you've.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yes. So there were, there were females included in
Speaker:the cohort with. Actually I know this. So it's a,
Speaker:it's a group out of a great researcher called
Speaker:Greg People. So I actually interviewed on our Pillar podcast if anyone wants
Speaker:to take a listen. He's the real expert in omega
Speaker:3s and he,
Speaker:and he's also doing some new research in
Speaker:the females and there were some females included in that
Speaker:cohort. But the, but like when it comes to
Speaker:magnesium and omega 3s,
Speaker:I really don't think that
Speaker:they're purely designed for
Speaker:athletes. You know, I think, I mean
Speaker:everyone will benefit from supplementing
Speaker:with magnesium and omega 3s, particularly for
Speaker:the ageing population. I mean with omega 3s. Now
Speaker:there's been some great research to show the,
Speaker:the addition of Omega 3s due to
Speaker:the anti inflammatory
Speaker:response can really help with some of
Speaker:the uptake of protein. So things like
Speaker:leucine, it helps the uptake of the protein. So if
Speaker:you consider when you're ageing, basically after 50,
Speaker:we're losing a lot of muscle, particularly as we get older, there's a lot
Speaker:of sarcopenia going on and taking omega
Speaker:3s with protein at the same time, can
Speaker:be really beneficial to maintain muscle mass. So
Speaker:I think it's for ageing populations it's
Speaker:equally as important. And of course when we talk about
Speaker:collagen, collagen breakdown only
Speaker:increases as we get older. So again we need
Speaker:to really keep on top of that as well. keeping on
Speaker:top of that. 15 grammes per day is really, really
Speaker:important. as we get older, is there.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Anyone that should be wary about
Speaker:supplementing? Should we be
Speaker:speaking to doctors if we've got any conditions or
Speaker:pregnant or those kind of things?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm not, I'm not a medical doctor, so I
Speaker:don't really want to talk on, talk to that too much,
Speaker:but I think, I think it's always worth getting a medical
Speaker:checkup and checking those things. Right. I
Speaker:mean, they're both quite safe, really.
Speaker:I'd be surprised, I was surprised if there's any strong
Speaker:reason not to. I mean, there just might be a little bit
Speaker:of changes with the doses, depending, depending on
Speaker:tolerance, really. yeah, I mean, I think I
Speaker:read somewhere once the, women who are
Speaker:breastfeeding could probably do with more magnesium,
Speaker:not less, for example. So there's, so there are nuances
Speaker:within different situations, of course, and I'm sure there's
Speaker:differences between menopause and all that kind of thing,
Speaker:but I'm not really, that down with that
Speaker:literature.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Okay, so before you go,
Speaker:just a couple quick questions. What is
Speaker:your favourite pillar product?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Omega 3. I mean, I have to say, I mean,
Speaker:I just feel, I feel like. So, One of the reasons I love the
Speaker:Omega 3s is for years and years
Speaker:I always knew the benefits of omega 3s, but
Speaker:I could not take them because I couldn't take
Speaker:the aftertaste and the kind of, the
Speaker:repeating, the repeating of the Omega 3s,
Speaker:but it completely alleviates it and it's just gone
Speaker:away. Totally. So for the first
Speaker:time with the pillar, I could actually start taking
Speaker:omega 3s, and that's, that's just, that was a game changer
Speaker:for me because before that I just could not take
Speaker:it. and I actually, with the Amiga Threes, I bite
Speaker:them and then spit out the capsule because it's
Speaker:actually quite, You should try it. You'll be surprised.
Speaker:It doesn't. It's a very. My kids do it
Speaker:too. They'll bite. Wow.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Well, maybe it'll be easier to do that when I'm not taking
Speaker:it as like the very first thing I'm taking in the day.
Speaker:So maybe that'll make it easier as well.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So just retry it because
Speaker:it's, it just. But it goes to show how good
Speaker:and pure the, Omega 3s are in the product.
Speaker:So. Yeah. So Omega 3s, without a doubt.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Are there any products that are coming to
Speaker:market soon you're allowed to tell us about anything that you're working
Speaker:on?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: good question. I know, I know of a
Speaker:product, but, I'm not sure if I'm allowed
Speaker:to talk about it or not.
Speaker:>> Charlie: I won't get you in trouble, but there's something coming and
Speaker:that in the future that we can look out for then.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, there's something coming in the future. And it's it's a very
Speaker:popular supplement that many people take.
Speaker:and we're getting a very, A very. I mean, all of, all
Speaker:the. All of our content is very high end.
Speaker:So, it's a very high end part
Speaker:of a micronutrient that many
Speaker:people, take. And it gets a lot of press, actually.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Oh, okay. I won't hazard a guess in case, in case I get it
Speaker:right or wrong. I don't want to put you on the spot. And
Speaker:lastly, is there any. Are there any products that you wish you made
Speaker:or that you hope that you will be kind of coming in the.
Speaker:In the future? Anything that you maybe supplement
Speaker:with now that you don't.
Speaker:You know, there's no pillar alternative,
Speaker:so you'd like to see it come to fruition.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: I mean, honestly, they're all the things that I, I tend to
Speaker:take generally. So, maybe, maybe a
Speaker:Coenzyme might, might be cosy. Q10 might be
Speaker:one. could be a good one because that's a,
Speaker:that's a pretty important one for metabolism as
Speaker:well. yeah, that'd be the only one that I
Speaker:could possibly think of.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Well, it was really nice chatting with you. I'm gonna change
Speaker:my supplement schedule
Speaker:and yeah. See how I see how I got on. And for
Speaker:anyone listening, you can save 10
Speaker:off all of the range of the pillar for performance
Speaker:products with the code
Speaker:COOKEATRUN@XMILES. So I'll leave that all in the
Speaker:links below.
Speaker:Thank you so much for listening to Cook Eat Run, the podcast
Speaker:hosted by me, Charlie Watson, sponsored by X Miles.
Speaker:They are your one stop nutrition shop.
Speaker:Come and find me on social media at, therunnerbeans and
Speaker:tell me what you're loving on the podcast. Send me all of your questions
Speaker:and suggestions for future episodes. All the
Speaker:links you need to connect with me are in the show notes.
Speaker:Lastly, please rate the Cook Eat Run podcast.
Speaker:It really means a lot to see your ratings and reviews.
Speaker:Obviously the five star ones go down very well,
Speaker:but please let me know what you think. It really does make a
Speaker:massive difference as it helps more people discover us and join our
Speaker:amazing running community.
Speaker:See you back here for another episode. Soon. In the
Speaker:meantime, happy running. And don't forget to fuel yourself.
Speaker:Bye.
