Are Gels Bad for Your Gut? Why gut health is a runner’s best friend with Gabrielle Morse
This week Charlie chats with Gabrielle Morse, gut health expert from The Gut Health clinic about gut health for runners - foods to avoid, how to add extra fibre into your diet and what gut training means!
Are energy gels are detrimental to gut health? How can runners optimise their gut health for better overall wellbeing?
Gut Health Basics
Gabrielle explains how gut bacteria affect everything from digestion to mental health.
Top Tips for Runners
Discover easy ways to up your gut game. Think fibre, think variety, and learn how to fuel your runs with gut-friendly foods.
Gut Training 101
Learn about gut training for better fibre and carb tolerance. Gabrielle shares tricks for handling gut issues on the run.
Energy Gels: are they messing with your gut?
Are gels gut villains? Gabrielle talks about emulsifiers and FODMAPs, while Charlie suggests some natural alternatives.
Processed Foods and Your Gut
Gabrielle highlights the fibre failings of ultra-processed foods and how to balance them with plant-based goodness.
Supplements: Yay or Nay?
Find out when probiotics and supplements might help, and why food should come first.
Don't miss out on the 10% discount on thi month’s featured products: Hummer gels and Supernatural Fuel energy pouches at XMiles with the code COOKEATRUN.
Check out Charlie’s list of recommended natural gels below:
Veloforte
Hilltop
Spring
RawVelo
Activeroot.
Find out more here - https://xmiles.co.uk/blogs/news/fuel-with-100-real-food
Connect with Gabrielle Morse at the Gut Health Clinic for more tips.
Got fuelling and nutrition questions? Episode topic suggestions? - find Charlie online @therunnerbeans / www.therunnerbeans.com
Grab a copy of Charlie’s book ‘Cook Eat Run’
The Cook Eat Run Podcast is sponsored by XMiles - the One Stop Nutrition Shop - use discount code COOKEATRUN for 10% off this month’s featured products at Xmiles.co.uk
This podcast is proudly produced by Decibelle Creative decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative
Transcript
>> Charlie: Welcome to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X Miles, hosted by
Speaker:me, Charlie Watson. I'm a runner, a mum, an
Speaker:NHS dietitian and author of the recipe
Speaker:book for runners Cook Eat Run. I'm also
Speaker:a 16 times marathoner and love nothing more than sharing what
Speaker:I've learned along the way through a lot of trial and error.
Speaker:Cook Eat Run is the go to podcast for running,
Speaker:nutrition training tips, marathon debriefs and
Speaker:more. I'm here to answer all your questions and fuel
Speaker:you with the knowledge you'll need to run faster, further
Speaker:and actually just to have more fun on the run. So whether
Speaker:you're training for an ultra, want to improve your marathon
Speaker:PB or simply just get more out of your
Speaker:running, you're in the right place.
Speaker:Hello and welcome back to the Cook Eat Run podcast
Speaker:with X Miles and thank you for
Speaker:joining us. today's topic is a little bit different than
Speaker:promised. It is on gut health and looking
Speaker:at are gels bad for our gut health? What can we do
Speaker:as runners to a improve our gut health? I know I
Speaker:promised an episode on nootropics and adaptogens
Speaker:that is coming. Sorry for the delay, but thank you for
Speaker:bearing with us. I'm hoping that you're going to enjoy
Speaker:this Gut Health podcast just as much.
Speaker:today I am talking to Gabrielle
Speaker:Morse who works at the Gut Health Outpatient
Speaker:clinic in London. She is also a guest lecturer at King's
Speaker:Golledge London, works at hospital and
Speaker:specialises in
Speaker:neurogastroenterology with a breadth of experience
Speaker:across gastroenterology conditions, with a specific
Speaker:interest in women's health. I really love
Speaker:chatting with her. Even as a dietitian myself, I feel like I
Speaker:learned things. She went into a bit of a deep dive
Speaker:into some areas of gut health that as a
Speaker:neurodietian I don't often get to touch on
Speaker:and also talked about some new research coming
Speaker:out on how eating certain products that can look
Speaker:after our gut health might aid recovery. So those are things that
Speaker:I'm going to take on board in my own kind of
Speaker:eating and wellness around running and
Speaker:recovery and just fueling my really.
Speaker:The Cook Run podcast is sponsored by
Speaker:XMiles and they have kindly given us a
Speaker:10% discount. As always, you know it
Speaker:changes each month. This month we are focusing with
Speaker:the kind of idea of gut health but we're focusing on
Speaker:real food gels so you can save 10%
Speaker:with the code cookeatrun on one of my favourite gels,
Speaker:the Hummer gels which are ah, based on Chia seeds.
Speaker:And also on the supernatural fuel energy
Speaker:pouches, which are energy, pouches with a
Speaker:whole food blend of fruits, seeds, nuts and grains
Speaker:that provide carbs, protein and fat that are particularly
Speaker:good for people on kind of ultra runs or,
Speaker:long bike rides, that kind of thing. So cheque them out, give them a
Speaker:try, save 10% with the code, cook, eat, run.
Speaker:Gabby, thank you so much for joining us this week.
Speaker:I'm so excited to talk to people about
Speaker:gut health. I feel like it's quite a hot topic, or it
Speaker:has been a, a hot topic for a while. And, what is
Speaker:gut health?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, gut health has become this huge kind
Speaker:of, buzzword really, that's really taken off and
Speaker:it's kind of pure core in the kind of
Speaker:science term, which is what we want to be defining as
Speaker:not the kind of health halo term. gut health basically
Speaker:refers to the trillions of gut bacteria that
Speaker:live in our digestive system. And what we've realised in the last
Speaker:maybe 20 years or so, is that our colon,
Speaker:so our large intestine, that last metre of our
Speaker:digestive system, was originally thought to be kind of redundant
Speaker:and just this sort of tube that helped us make our stools.
Speaker:And then about 20 years ago, we suddenly realised, actually, hang
Speaker:on, this is full of trillions of bacteria.
Speaker:And since then the science has just bloomed in the air and we've
Speaker:realised that actually what these trillions of bacteria, yeast,
Speaker:protozoa, fungi, are doing is, actually looking after our
Speaker:whole body health. so I guess gut health really,
Speaker:in that sense, it refers to the functioning of our gut, our entire
Speaker:digestive system. So it refers to kind of how kind
Speaker:of comfortably easily food
Speaker:goes from kind of mouth to exit. but I think what's
Speaker:really important to know about gut health as well is because we now know the
Speaker:gut communicates with virtually every organ in our
Speaker:body. We're not just thinking about kind of, our
Speaker:digestion and kind of our bowel movements. We're also thinking about
Speaker:things like our immune health as well. So how often we're sick,
Speaker:how long it takes us to recover, how frequently
Speaker:we have infections, how often we have to have antibiotics. So actually,
Speaker:this kind of term of gut health is really all
Speaker:encompassing and it really does think about your whole body
Speaker:health as well, which I really love about it. Kind
Speaker:of my specialist area as a dietitian is all about
Speaker:disorders of the gut brain interaction. So I really focus
Speaker:on how the gut and the brain communicate with each other. And
Speaker:actually ibs is an example of a condition that I would
Speaker:see within that specialist area. So again, defining
Speaker:gut health is also going to involve things like your
Speaker:mental health and wellbeing, your sleep, your stress
Speaker:management and because of that bidirectional
Speaker:relationship we have between the gut and the brain.
Speaker:And so when we think about it kind of
Speaker:the definition is really kind of far reaching. It
Speaker:encompasses whole body health and I really love that about it.
Speaker:>> Charlie: I mean I think that feels both
Speaker:quite. As a
Speaker:fellow dietitian, I quite like it. I feel like you can
Speaker:literally feed your health. You know, the food is
Speaker:medicine. That's how I kind of take it as like, you
Speaker:know, you can look after your overall health
Speaker:by eating well, by thinking about that kind of
Speaker:thing. But what can we as runners
Speaker:do to improve our gut health? So that
Speaker:then it has a knock on effect to you know,
Speaker:hopefully improved immunity, improved mental health, that kind of thing.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Sure. so I think there's, there's kind of quite a few parts
Speaker:to this question really. I think first of all probably what's helpful to
Speaker:understand is how kind of these gut microbes actually
Speaker:relate to kind of gut health and what's going on there.
Speaker:So we know that our gut microbes
Speaker:are fantastic at fertilising the fibre in our
Speaker:diet. So fibre coming from all of your plant based foods, so
Speaker:your whole grains, lentils, beans and chickpeas,
Speaker:nuts and seeds, herbs and spices, fruits and
Speaker:vegetables, all of these plant based foods in your omega
Speaker:3 containing foods as well as your omega 3 fatty
Speaker:acids, all of these are ah, fermented by the
Speaker:gut microbes and this produces these short chain fatty
Speaker:acids. And these short chain fatty acids are then
Speaker:involved in things like training your immune cells, your
Speaker:hormonal health, your vitamin and mineral synthesis as
Speaker:well.
Speaker:>> Charlie: So what can we do as runners to
Speaker:improve our mental health? That we look after our
Speaker:ah, immune health, our mental health,
Speaker:overall wellbeing.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: so I think when I was kind of preparing in
Speaker:advance this and thinking about how does running and gut health link because actually
Speaker:in the science there's not heaps of research out
Speaker:there. and that's because actually research tends to
Speaker:focus on kind of clinical, chronic conditions
Speaker:that doesn't tend to focus on
Speaker:healthy individuals kind of taking up running, running. I think
Speaker:what's really helpful to do in the first instance to take a step back and think
Speaker:about the ways in which running might impact on
Speaker:food choices and also things like gut
Speaker:symptoms as well. So let's split that up again into two things.
Speaker:So we know that actually there's a really high prevalence of
Speaker:gastrointestinal symptoms being reported by runners.
Speaker:So as running kind of frequency and intensity ramps up,
Speaker:we know that people start to suffer a little bit more with things like
Speaker:bloating, nausea, constipation, diarrhoea as well when
Speaker:running, flatulence, belching, reflux.
Speaker:So there's kind, there's two parts to it. The first thing is thinking about
Speaker:managing those symptoms and thinking about how you
Speaker:eat around that. and then the next thing is also
Speaker:thinking about, well, how does running actually impact
Speaker:on your food choices and how much time you've
Speaker:got to be food shopping and preparing food as
Speaker:well, because it's all well and good. Saying to
Speaker:anybody, the message for gut health that we're
Speaker:trying to help get everybody to is this
Speaker:message of having 30 different plant based foods a
Speaker:week in your diet. And that's all well and good and we'll absolutely
Speaker:talk through some strategies today to get there. But
Speaker:until you consider how your life actually looks
Speaker:and how your activities and your running in particular
Speaker:kind of impacts on your food choices. And I think, you
Speaker:know, my favourite example, I've got consent from my
Speaker:husband, but he has got into marathon running.
Speaker:and you know, he's a classic example of someone who's gone from not
Speaker:running to kind of doing marathons. Absolutely loves it. It's been
Speaker:fantastic for his mental health. M
Speaker:but he comes back from a run, he's absolutely exhausted, he
Speaker:hasn't planned beforehand what he's going to have. So he goes straight to
Speaker:the corner shop and picks up a packet of five pack of donuts
Speaker:and that's his kind of post run refuelling. And he's like, well I've just
Speaker:run for two hours, it doesn't matter,
Speaker:I can have it. and so I think that's a real key thing
Speaker:for me is actually just remembering that kind of running. It
Speaker:takes a lot of time, but it was also very energy depleting as well.
Speaker:So the thought of trying to come back and then think about
Speaker:where am I going to get my plant diversity from, how am I going to quickly
Speaker:make myself something that's kind of, of really, really, you know,
Speaker:nourishing for myself and for my gut microbes and replenishes
Speaker:my losses, it gets a little bit trickier. so
Speaker:I think really what was coming up for me when I was thinking about this around
Speaker:running is unfortunately going to be preparation is going to be
Speaker:the main thing. what I love about working in this area of
Speaker:gut health is, it's very maximalist. So we're always. The question, we
Speaker:always ask is what can I add? What can I add to what I'm
Speaker:currently having? So, I've been out kind of this
Speaker:morning, little run, little cycle, little workout, come back
Speaker:home and so really fancied something kind
Speaker:of warming and satisfying and so
Speaker:made myself a kind of big bowl of porridge. And in it I
Speaker:put kind of grated apple, chia seed, flaxseed
Speaker:yoghurt, dark chocolate and a pinch of salt.
Speaker:And what I love about gut health is it's about kind of
Speaker:taking your food that next step further and taking
Speaker:standard porridge and adding to it chia seed,
Speaker:flaxseed, apple, berries, dark chocolate,
Speaker:nuts, nut butter. Because we know that each
Speaker:of these individual plants is contributing to
Speaker:better gut health. So the message is always what can I
Speaker:add? and I think so, yeah, going back to kind of that
Speaker:preparation thing as well. So, thinking about preparing these
Speaker:snacks in advance and knowing that after run you're more likely to want
Speaker:something sweet and knowing that kind of in the
Speaker:supermarket your sweet options are probably going to be more of these sort of
Speaker:ultra processed foods. And we can kind of dissect that in a
Speaker:minute as well. but actually if in
Speaker:advance you can pre make yourself like some
Speaker:banana bread, but you could adapt the recipe to put in it some
Speaker:oats and yoghurt. Some. I've even been making banana bread
Speaker:recently with like cannellini beans in it as well for a bit more
Speaker:protein. or you know, like kind of
Speaker:need that recipe. Yeah, it's a work in progress. or
Speaker:you know, like a kind of baked oats. But in that putting in your dark
Speaker:chocolate apple yoghurt all these nice bits, I saw
Speaker:this week, Dr. Megan Rossi, who runs the gut health clinic,
Speaker:she's made a great, pumpkin soup recipe and in it
Speaker:she's put kind of silk and tofu. So that's getting blended
Speaker:into it. So then even your kind of soups and things, you could
Speaker:put beans into it, tofu into it to get more protein in there
Speaker:as well. and I guess that's the other thing about, I was saying at the
Speaker:beginning about kind of navigating the gut symptoms
Speaker:too, is that if after running you feel quite nauseous, then
Speaker:maybe kind of having more sort of liquid foods is better for
Speaker:you. But actually with those liquid foods we still need to
Speaker:fortify it. So that pumpkin soup with the tofu and the beans
Speaker:added into it might Be a good example for someone who does really
Speaker:struggle with appetite, nausea, bloating after
Speaker:a run, because actually generally kind of liquid food goes down, down
Speaker:a little easier if you're feeling a bit uncomfortable.
Speaker:so it's. Yeah, I think the first step is to take a step back and look
Speaker:at kind of how are you eating at the minute, where's the diversity
Speaker:coming from your diet? I wanted to pull on a bit of really
Speaker:interesting research that I found in this area as well.
Speaker:and essentially what it's found is that
Speaker:in running there's this really big focus on carbohydrates
Speaker:and carbohydrate loading. We go to kind of simple
Speaker:carbohydrates to really get you there. the problem is that these
Speaker:simple carbohydrates that are, ah, more of your kind of
Speaker:white bread, white rice, white pasta, they
Speaker:lack that variety thing. and in doing that it kind of
Speaker:starved the gut microbes of the fibre that they're
Speaker:after to produce these short chain fatty acids.
Speaker:And actually what one study showed was that actually,
Speaker:prioritising whole grains, although it didn't look like
Speaker:that those people then met their carbohydrate
Speaker:targets because the short chain fatty acids in the
Speaker:gut are still relating to things like your glycogen
Speaker:stores and actually the efficiency of your
Speaker:metabolism actually to kind of steer
Speaker:away slightly from I've got to meet my kind of, you know, macro
Speaker:carb amount. But actually thinking about that diversity
Speaker:and whole grain thing, there was some evidence to show
Speaker:that even if you weren't kind of hitting it by numbers, actually the
Speaker:glycogen load, and the kind of
Speaker:efficiency, of the carbohydrate delivery was still
Speaker:there.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Wow, that is interesting because I know that a lot of
Speaker:runners, myself included, when I'm m.
Speaker:For the short period of time before a
Speaker:marathon, when I'm carb loading, I
Speaker:do try to limit too
Speaker:much fibre just to try and avoid having any stomach issues
Speaker:on race day. And also, as you say, it's just
Speaker:easier to hit these carbohydrate targets
Speaker:with simple carbs because they
Speaker:just have higher carb levels, lower protein,
Speaker:lower fibre, they're easier to eat
Speaker:more of so that you can kind of almost
Speaker:overeat them to hit those targets.
Speaker:So it's really interesting to know that
Speaker:actually even using whole grains, you can still get that kind
Speaker:of availability, but in the short term with
Speaker:like a pre marathon, three
Speaker:day period, are we doing
Speaker:harm by choosing those, you know,
Speaker:are we doing long term harm to Our gut health by
Speaker:choosing those easy, simple carbs?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: No, not at all. Like the gut is really, really, really adaptable and these
Speaker:kind of short term changes can be kind of easily
Speaker:rectified the other side by going back onto your more kind
Speaker:of like high fibre, plant, diverse diet.
Speaker:And it is really commonly seen that people go onto this kind
Speaker:of low fodmap, so low fermentable carbohydrate
Speaker:diet, in the sort of week before race day
Speaker:to kind of manage gut symptoms. The problem is
Speaker:of course with any of those restriction style d science is
Speaker:like they can be done short term for that benefit there
Speaker:and then, but they are not a healthy, safe alternative long
Speaker:term. We, we know that kind of long term following anything
Speaker:too restrictive is harmful for kind of our gut microbiome plus
Speaker:all of the other you know, risks of being deficient
Speaker:in certain kind of foods, fibres, nutrients, those sorts of
Speaker:things. so yeah, there's a lot to kind of
Speaker:unpack within that. But fundamentally those short term
Speaker:adaptations and lead up to race day are ah, no
Speaker:problem whatsoever. It's just about kind of going the other side back
Speaker:onto. And again, when I was doing a little bit of
Speaker:research for this kind of interview that we're
Speaker:having together today, I saw about kind of gut
Speaker:training. and for me in the area that I work in,
Speaker:I talk about gut training for fibre tolerance. But in the running
Speaker:world you talk about gut training for your carbohydrate tolerance and
Speaker:kind of more in the sort of stomach, whereas I've been talking about
Speaker:gut training for fibre, for the kind of large intestine, for
Speaker:the colon as well. And so, you know, I think what's,
Speaker:what's another thing that's kind of important to know is that if at
Speaker:the minute your diet as a runner is maybe more
Speaker:focused on these kind of simple carbs because you're training a lot and
Speaker:you're tired and you know, we get in a rut with what we
Speaker:eat as well. We tend to eat the same few foods on repeat.
Speaker:if after this you're thinking, actually maybe I do want to start thinking
Speaker:about my overall gut health a little bit more, I'm interested on how it
Speaker:can kind of improve my kind of overall health, my energy
Speaker:levels, my immune health, that sort of thing.
Speaker:And specifically in running as well, where there is a gut
Speaker:musculoskeletal axis as well, so there's a gut muscle
Speaker:axis. So actually better gut health is linked to things
Speaker:like better kind of muscles, protein
Speaker:synthesis, muscle Recovery as well. So it's, you
Speaker:know, it's really beneficial for runners too. but if you're
Speaker:currently not having heaps of diversity in your diet, so
Speaker:if your diet's currently same few foods on repeat, same few
Speaker:meals on repeat, you've got to do a bit of training with your
Speaker:gut from the fibre perspective as well as practising with
Speaker:your carbohydrates for your event. So if I suddenly, you know,
Speaker:if at the minute, if you don't really eat much in the way of like chickpeas
Speaker:or I don't know, butternut squash or sweet
Speaker:potato, whatever, I always give the example of like, if you don't eat much of those
Speaker:foods and I give you for dinner this evening like a heaped bowl of a
Speaker:chickpea curry, you're going to think I'm really bad at my job
Speaker:because you're going to feel really bloated and you're going to really, really not like
Speaker:me at all. But you know, something we love talking
Speaker:about the gut health clinic is doing this gut training with
Speaker:fibre whereby you would take like a tin of
Speaker:chickpeas, rinse them really, really well, get rid of that starchy
Speaker:water and start by adding them like a
Speaker:small amount each day to one of your meals
Speaker:the course of the week you're having like a tablespoon
Speaker:of chickpeas each day and that's going to start to
Speaker:train your gut, your lower gut, to tolerate those foods a
Speaker:bit better. and again, actually, you know, kind of
Speaker:training your gut in that way can improve general food
Speaker:sensitivities as well. And you know, I saw in the research earlier
Speaker:that actually IBS is still just
Speaker:as prevalent in kind of, you know, performance
Speaker:athletes as it is the general population. And so there is
Speaker:a lot to be said for kind of fibre training, for
Speaker:the running population too. so I think that's a helpful
Speaker:tool. And we talk about things like maybe getting some frozen
Speaker:vegetables. And so if at the minute you're just having kind of
Speaker:scrambled eggs on toast as a kind of post run
Speaker:fueling thing, could you have like a
Speaker:handful of edamame beans, a handful of peas and a
Speaker:tablespoon of chickpeas with that as well, put some herbs and
Speaker:spices over it and then you're doing that thing of kind of
Speaker:slowly exposing your gut to more of those plant based
Speaker:foods. And you know, as it would go, your kind of
Speaker:edamame beans, peas and chickpeas are going to provide a little bit
Speaker:of plant protein as well, so it just offers you up that way
Speaker:to get the diversity up in your diet.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And all of those things are really easy to have like in your cupboard or
Speaker:freezer just to, you know, cheap,
Speaker:available, don't have to worry
Speaker:about using them up within a certain timeframe. So.
Speaker:Yeah, I love that. And actually, yeah, what you're saying about
Speaker:gut training, I talk about it so much, trying to train your gut
Speaker:to get used to taking gels when you're running at,
Speaker:intensity. Because so many people are like, oh, I
Speaker:have, I can't tolerate gels, I have stomach problems, I can't
Speaker:have them. But actually I think it's just that
Speaker:obviously that's a lot of carbohydrates to be
Speaker:consuming in one go and
Speaker:while on the run, whilst also putting your body
Speaker:under quite high stress because you're running it like
Speaker:faster paces than you often do in
Speaker:training. If we
Speaker:can tolerate them or building up the of gut, your
Speaker:gut training to tolerate them, are we,
Speaker:are they okay for our gut health having
Speaker:these carbohydrate gels that are essentially 30
Speaker:grammes of sugar?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah. So there's no like data available
Speaker:on kind of, you know, having the gels, gut health, that
Speaker:sort of thing. It's just not researched at all. Or not. I
Speaker:could see. Anyway, I think what we always have to do is kind of
Speaker:like take a little bit of a step back as always. Right. And kind of first
Speaker:of all cheque in on things like the ingredients list within
Speaker:them. we know that things like emulsifiers for
Speaker:example, are something that are now commonly found
Speaker:in lots of our ultra processed foods. And certainly a
Speaker:lot of those gels are going to contain emulsifiers as well.
Speaker:And it's important to be aware that like, we now think that
Speaker:emulsifiers, are potentially explaining the increase
Speaker:in risk of things like, inflammatory bowel disease
Speaker:as well. And so it's not what I'm saying here at all. These
Speaker:gels are going to cause you inflammatory bowel disease. But
Speaker:it's just to say that like, if these are something that you're having on the
Speaker:regular and they do contain emulsifiers and you're having lots of
Speaker:them, it's just an aware awareness that they are something
Speaker:that perhaps might be better swapped to something that you could make
Speaker:yourself instead, if that is an option.
Speaker:>> Charlie: There are actually also loads of really
Speaker:natural gels on the market made from real
Speaker:foods. Things like, there's ones that are like maple
Speaker:syrup or agave syrup and things like that that actually
Speaker:perfect have shorter ingredients lists,
Speaker:real food, you don't have to be stressing in the kitchen
Speaker:before your long runs. There are, are
Speaker:options and I will try and actually pull a list together of
Speaker:the ones that X miles sell for the
Speaker:show notes for this for anyone interested in that.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Perfect, great. And then I guess just the second thing about the
Speaker:gels as well is just this awareness that
Speaker:some of them will contain fodmaps in them as well. And we
Speaker:touched upon fodmaps a moment ago in the sense of like some
Speaker:people go on like a low fodmap diet before
Speaker:big events to kind of reduce guts and, and these
Speaker:fodmaps are basically your fermentable carbohydrates and
Speaker:they're water soluble and in a nutshell their action in the
Speaker:body is that they can draw in water so they can
Speaker:kind of increase water delivery into the large intestine
Speaker:and they can also increase
Speaker:fermentation as well. So they increase gas production in the gut
Speaker:too. So some of the gels available might be causing
Speaker:you gut upset because they are actually quite high
Speaker:in some of the polyols, which is the sugar alcohols. They might
Speaker:contain lots of things like sorbitol, mannitol,
Speaker:xylitol. So it's just kind of an awareness
Speaker:that they, and that's not going to cause you long term damage at all. But it's just
Speaker:to say that like you might not have realised it but that
Speaker:might actually be the thing that you're quite sensitive to
Speaker:within those gels as well. So it's just helpful to be aware
Speaker:because I know there are kind of low fodmap gels available
Speaker:but I imagine like some of the kind of ones you pick up
Speaker:like on the go in a supermarket if you've sort of forgotten to bring them with
Speaker:you or whatever, will probably have more kind of fodmaps in them.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, I find they're often in protein
Speaker:bars. It's so hard to
Speaker:get a protein bar that doesn't have sugar
Speaker:alcohols in it like in the uk.
Speaker:It's almost impossible. Especially as you said like the
Speaker:on the go, the post rate run where
Speaker:you're starving in the corner shop, you want something, you know, you
Speaker:need the protein, you want something quick,
Speaker:sweet, sweet, easy that you can grab and go. But
Speaker:actually yeah, for me I don't deal well with
Speaker:them. I know that they cause me stomach upset so
Speaker:I avoid them pretty much at all costs.
Speaker:But it's hard. Yeah, it's really difficult to find them.
Speaker:But yeah, that I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to look more closely at some
Speaker:of the gels that I like and use. I know they don't have sugar
Speaker:alcohols in, but just to look at the kind of
Speaker:ingredients list and see what they, what they do contain will
Speaker:be interesting.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: But yeah, I definitely don't want anything too kind of fear
Speaker:mongering to come across there with the gels at all. It's just the
Speaker:awareness that like for some of them they're going to be slightly more ultra
Speaker:processed than others.
Speaker:>> Charlie: And talking of kind of ultra processed, what
Speaker:impact do ultra processed foods. I know that
Speaker:again it's a very hot topic at the moment.
Speaker:What impact do ultra processed foods have
Speaker:on our gut health? I've got. For those
Speaker:interested, I've got a whole podcast episode
Speaker:with Nicola Raynham about.
Speaker:I'm gonna have to insert that. I've got a whole podcast
Speaker:episode with another
Speaker:dietitian on ultra processed foods and their impact on
Speaker:our kind of body and health. But specifically
Speaker:gut health. What kind
Speaker:of. I'm guessing negative impact impacts have
Speaker:on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: So I'm sure when you spoke through that with
Speaker:Nicola Ludlow.
Speaker:Yeah, Nicola London Rain. Yeah, yeah. When you went
Speaker:through. I've got no doubt that that episode with
Speaker:Nick, she would have broken through the kind of nuances
Speaker:within this as well. Right. And actually the kind of
Speaker:different classifications for your processed foods and actually
Speaker:like your cereal products for example. So the bread
Speaker:and cereals and kind of whole grain products are actually
Speaker:about to be beneficial for our gut health. I mean
Speaker:fundamentally what is really difficult to say is actually
Speaker:the definite answer on what the
Speaker:specific issue is and the mechanism through which it's
Speaker:working. But we think that the kind of
Speaker:increase in ultra processed foods, as I sort of mentioned earlier
Speaker:with the emulsifiers, is potentially being linked to more
Speaker:incidences of things like inflammatory bowel disease
Speaker:and more incidence of things like colon cancer as
Speaker:well. I guess in a kind of
Speaker:more empowering approach to it is to think about that
Speaker:if our gut microbes thrive on
Speaker:fibre and if, and we know that kind of,
Speaker:the more optimal our gut health, the more this lowers your risk
Speaker:of things like type 2 diabetes, dementia,
Speaker:stroke, colon cancer. The more that you
Speaker:can see the role that fibre plays a role in
Speaker:optimal gut health. And I guess the main thing that a lot of these
Speaker:ultra processed foods will lack is fibre.
Speaker:So there's kind of, you know, there's long ingredients list in there and the
Speaker:kind of specific Emulsifiers, additives, everyone's still trying
Speaker:to work, out which the real problems are in what
Speaker:quantity, how often. And that data doesn't really exist to
Speaker:say, you know, if you have, X
Speaker:food, ah, X, many times a week, you are going to get
Speaker:X. And I think again, it's all about these kind of
Speaker:huge, huge differences in how we all eat and
Speaker:live our day to day life and, you know, kind of
Speaker:food choices on the go versus home cooked meals. And
Speaker:there is just so much that goes into it. And so I don't want to kind
Speaker:of boil it down to be too
Speaker:negative or too oversimplified. And in a cost of living
Speaker:crisis as well, we've got to be really mindful about our language.
Speaker:but I think the one kind of consensus opinion that we
Speaker:certainly share in the gut health Space is that these ultra processed
Speaker:foods are, going to lack the fibre that really
Speaker:nourishes our good gut microbes and really leads to those kind
Speaker:of healthful benefits. and I think that's a
Speaker:more empowering bottom line to land on because I think
Speaker:there is just so much fear mongering in the Space
Speaker:now. and everyone's getting a bit too
Speaker:worried, scared, fearful, obsessive
Speaker:even over these ultra processed foods. But actually
Speaker:like, they're virtually unavoidable in our day to day life.
Speaker:And fundamentally, you know, that they're processed because it means
Speaker:they taste better. And we're just humans who, you
Speaker:know, like some chocolate. And
Speaker:so again, and, you know, the thing that we always come
Speaker:back to in clinic is talking about, well, how can we
Speaker:have these foods, but how can we make it a bit more mindful and again, what can
Speaker:we add to it? So take your chocolate but turn
Speaker:it into a bowl with like yoghurt, nuts, frozen
Speaker:berries, banana and put your chocolate on top of it.
Speaker:Or, you know, if it's Friday evening and you've done a big run,
Speaker:or you haven't done a big run, but it's Friday evening and you want a kind of
Speaker:pizza to go sort of thing, or can you
Speaker:put on that any more? can you put any more veggies with it?
Speaker:Can you get some, you know, olives from the cupboard and
Speaker:put it on there, can you have it with like a side of edamame,
Speaker:beans, peas, peas and green beans.
Speaker:So it's trying to think about what's workable within your life
Speaker:as well around these ultra processed foods because they're not going anywhere.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Finally, a Hawaiian pizza is coming into its
Speaker:own here. Getting your Pineapple on there?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker:>> Charlie: so we've talked a bit about kind of fibre
Speaker:and how runners can
Speaker:like try to aim for Those kind of
Speaker:30 different plants over the week to
Speaker:try to benefit their gut health. Are there any
Speaker:supplements, things like prebiotics,
Speaker:probiotics, omega 3 you mentioned
Speaker:on that they could be
Speaker:supplementing with, to help with their gut health. Health.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: so I had a look and there was a great, kind of
Speaker:systematic review or just like a literature synthesis,
Speaker:from 2021 that I looked at and that spoke
Speaker:about kind of the research as it stood on probiotics
Speaker:at the time. And I think what I would say about probiotics
Speaker:is that they are as specific as a medicine. So like
Speaker:if you have a headache and you're not
Speaker:going to take a medicine for like a
Speaker:diuretic, like you're going to take paracetamol and
Speaker:it's the same thing. So with probiotics
Speaker:we know much more about them in the sense of
Speaker:like specific kind of gut complaints
Speaker:that they can improve. So we know which ones improve things
Speaker:like diarrhoea or constipation and we know which ones
Speaker:improve things like antibiotic associated diarrhoea.
Speaker:What we don't really know is the specifics within running,
Speaker:about kind of which ones may or may not be helpful.
Speaker:and kind of within it as well. Again, like, some studies will look at like single
Speaker:strains, some will look at multi strains and when you take a
Speaker:strain and then you turn into a multi strain, you then need to know what all the other
Speaker:strains are up to in that probiotic as well. Do any of them
Speaker:compete with each other? The other thing with probiotics is also
Speaker:like the method of delivery as well. So is it going to survive the acid
Speaker:in your stomach? So if it's a liquid bacteria, is it actually
Speaker:going to reach, you know, that gut kind of eight metres later
Speaker:alive? Possibly now not. so the data isn't
Speaker:really there on like the specific probiotic, or
Speaker:bacterial strains that might benefit runners.
Speaker:There are kind of anecdotally people, some studies that showed
Speaker:that kind of, you know, a mix of strains, single strains, people
Speaker:found helpful but really flawed research only
Speaker:on men. Study size maximum 30 people. So
Speaker:very poor generalised
Speaker:generalizability. and I think the thing
Speaker:that people maybe don't understand with probiotics as well is
Speaker:that really, you know, we feel that they're a short term thing,
Speaker:they're kind of like a three month thing. And the goal with probiotics
Speaker:is that actually after that point in time,
Speaker:you then nourish your own gut microbiome through
Speaker:having a lovely varied diet. Your 30 plant based
Speaker:foods, omega 3 rich foods as well. So the goal
Speaker:of probiotics is not like lifelong, it's not to
Speaker:use them lifelong, it's to use them for short periods of time
Speaker:and then your diet should then be able to kind of supplement
Speaker:thereafter. And that's a really important thing as well. And I
Speaker:think that's probably the thing with supplements as well is we're
Speaker:always going to say food first, that's always going to be the best way to get
Speaker:these foods because we know that that's the best bioavailability.
Speaker:and it's again about things like for example
Speaker:magnesium supplements, for example. You know, magnesium comes up a
Speaker:lot as being kind of helpful for like muscle
Speaker:relaxation and sleep and recovery. But
Speaker:actually certain forms of magnesium can really increase
Speaker:diarrhoea when you take it as a supplement. So
Speaker:you know, if you're wanting to kind of think about taking any supplement
Speaker:supplements, go for it if you want to. There's not heaps
Speaker:of evidence and again there's never the right evidence there on
Speaker:like all the kind of the quantity
Speaker:and the duration that you should be having these things for. So
Speaker:try them if you want them and if they make you feel suddenly like
Speaker:you're, you know, flying above and doing
Speaker:really well, then great, you know, continue. But actually if you introduce
Speaker:something and you think actually I, this is upsetting my tummy, this doesn't
Speaker:feel right, I've got a headache, like I'm not sure
Speaker:and stop it and see whether those symptoms go away. in
Speaker:general, yeah, kind of less pro,
Speaker:additional supplements, obviously things like vitamin D helpful for
Speaker:everybody year round. And I think if we look at the
Speaker:kind of weather we've had this year and climate crisis
Speaker:and those sorts of things, probably we should all be taking vitamin
Speaker:D all year round by this point. and again I
Speaker:think it goes back to the fact that actually so many of
Speaker:your micronutrients provided by your plant based
Speaker:foods that nourish the gut microbiome are also foods
Speaker:that can really help with recovery after running as well. So
Speaker:your B vitamins, your iron, calcium,
Speaker:magnesium, zinc, so all of these you can get from your
Speaker:plant based foods. So if you can train your gut to
Speaker:tolerate more fibre and kind of adding a little bit here and
Speaker:there, take your pesto pasta, put some chickpeas,
Speaker:put some green beans, put some peas, some frozen
Speaker:broccoli with it, you Know if you can start training
Speaker:your gut to tolerate more of these foods, hopefully you can get it all from a
Speaker:food first approach which is always going to be preferred by
Speaker:the body and less likely to you those kind of
Speaker:unwanted symptoms. I did see some slightly promising
Speaker:research in the field of fermented
Speaker:foods and perceived kind of
Speaker:recovery from running as well. There was
Speaker:small study, lots of flaws as always. But some, one
Speaker:study did look at kind of adding in things like
Speaker:sauerkraut, sauerkraut
Speaker:kimchi and kefir yoghurt with a
Speaker:potential improvement in how people felt they
Speaker:recovered afterwards. And I've seen research
Speaker:before that kind of randomised some footballers, I can't
Speaker:remember if we're talking Premier League or kind of Saturday
Speaker:fund league, that they randomised them to.
Speaker:One group was given dark chocolate each day a couple of
Speaker:squares, another group wasn't giving it. And the group
Speaker:that had the dark chocolate perceived to have better recovery
Speaker:and less muscle soreness as well. So really
Speaker:interesting. And again, you know, from a gut health perspective, we
Speaker:would love dark chocolate for the polyphenols. Yeah. And
Speaker:that'd be something that I would say, you know, add dark chocolate to
Speaker:your porridge snacks, you have yoghurt, all these sorts of
Speaker:things.
Speaker:>> Charlie: A dream. Any excuse to add more chocolate
Speaker:into my diet. I will absolutely take dark
Speaker:chocolate. Dark chocolate. I do, I do have
Speaker:dark chocolate but just quickly on that. I use the
Speaker:US probiotic guide for like
Speaker:this.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Charlie: People are wanting to use
Speaker:probiotics for the short term, whether it's for a course of
Speaker:antibiotics or, or they've got diarrhoea or they're
Speaker:travelling and they're worried about getting travellers diarrhoea. I find
Speaker:that quite helpful to just cross reference to make sure you're
Speaker:taking the right probiotic for
Speaker:what you want it for. so I'll leave.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So just kind of matching, matching the problem
Speaker:with the strain, and the kind of
Speaker:bacteria. Sorry. The probiotics themselves should
Speaker:have three parts to their name as well. So if you just see
Speaker:like contains bifidobacterium, that's not specific
Speaker:enough. so for example with like the antibiotic
Speaker:associated diarrhoea, we know we need Lactobacillus
Speaker:ramnus, GG and then a yeast Saccharomyces
Speaker:boulardii. so it's down to the specifics and again
Speaker:even within that there's actually then a recommended kind of colony
Speaker:forming unit that's required as well and the duration.
Speaker:So it's just at the minute the specifics aren't
Speaker:there. and I think where,
Speaker:because the issue is basically is that everyone lives their lives so
Speaker:differently and so so many of these studies that look at kind
Speaker:of like we were saying earlier about those other studies that looked at kind
Speaker:of prebiotic supplements in running as well with really
Speaker:varied results. And that's because for some people like
Speaker:a prebiotic is a fertiliser. So your
Speaker:prebiotic foods are all fertilisers for your gut microbes.
Speaker:So most of your kind of fibrous foods, but things like kind of
Speaker:onion, garlic, wheat would be really good examples of some
Speaker:prebiotic fibres. But for some people those are
Speaker:foods that can cause discomfort and
Speaker:bloating if your gut perhaps isn't so
Speaker:adaptable at tolerating those foods, breaking it down and
Speaker:fermenting it. So there's just huge individual
Speaker:differences. which is why it's worthwhile I guess playing around
Speaker:with these things yourselves. because it's all
Speaker:well and good saying oh the studies didn't find anything. But that's
Speaker:because sometimes the studies find it's really helpful for some and
Speaker:not helpful for others. So it kind of net balances out to no
Speaker:effect.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, and interesting that
Speaker:some of the ones you found were just on men. I think that's a, could
Speaker:be a whole different topic in itself on
Speaker:science and health in men
Speaker:versus women and then training
Speaker:and you know, nutrition suggestions
Speaker:for performance in men and women. Anyway, I could
Speaker:go on a whole tangent about that. But so
Speaker:we obviously both have a food first kind of
Speaker:priority when it comes to not only
Speaker:gut health but just overall kind of wellbeing.
Speaker:What about green powders? I've seen them all over my
Speaker:Instagram. I have some downstairs in my cupboard
Speaker:that I want to try because I feel like I have a very strong opinion
Speaker:on them without having ever tried them. What are your thoughts
Speaker:and your kind of evidence based
Speaker:opinion on them?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, I would say it's probably
Speaker:overwhelmingly on the more negative side.
Speaker:so as we sort of mentioned earlier, like when you're kind of giving
Speaker:your body all of your plant based foods in their whole
Speaker:form, so you know, even if it's kind of cooked and
Speaker:then turned into a soup or a smoothie, but if you have it
Speaker:quickly, the kind of, the beneficial compounds that
Speaker:go beyond fibre, things like the polyphenols and the fruits as
Speaker:well are still kind of live active,
Speaker:helpful, and available as well. But
Speaker:the more that your kind of all of These foods are
Speaker:taken and they are heat treated and processed and blitzed
Speaker:and powdered and stored for longer life as well.
Speaker:Those really beneficial things like the polyphenols,
Speaker:they don't have a long shelf life once they've been kind
Speaker:of heat treated, processed, broken down.
Speaker:and actually we know that a lot of these green powders, again, like they
Speaker:kind of can be quite, they can either be too high in fibre or too low
Speaker:in fibre. and the other thing to say as well is that a lot of the time
Speaker:they will contain a lot of prebiotic
Speaker:fibres too. And the prebiotics, as we said a moment ago,
Speaker:so these are the fibres that kind of really nourish the
Speaker:gut microbes, kind of the fertiliser for the gut.
Speaker:But when they're put into really concentrated
Speaker:doses like this, you can actually end up having like the
Speaker:equivalent of, I don't know, something like eight apples for example. And
Speaker:actually apples might be a food that you might be a bit sensitive to
Speaker:and it might be that you can tolerate like a quarter
Speaker:of an apple absolutely fine. But when you have the
Speaker:equivalent of, you know, six or so dehydrated,
Speaker:processed, blitz up apples, actually that causes you some
Speaker:discomfort. And I think, you know, we know that things
Speaker:like IBS is incredibly common, in the general
Speaker:population. It's just as common in the running population as well and
Speaker:even in kind of high performance athletes.
Speaker:and so these are the kind of foods that can actually trigger some gut
Speaker:symptoms as well. So try it, be really
Speaker:curious and open minded and be really, Well,
Speaker:I guess, you know, I don't necessarily want you to go looking for it because if you go
Speaker:looking for it, the gut can often present with these symptoms anyway.
Speaker:but if you notice that you are a bit more bloated,
Speaker:gurgly uncomfortable, any change
Speaker:to your bowel habits at all and stop. And it's probably not the right thing. And
Speaker:again, food first. I know, it's just, it's not sexy advice, is
Speaker:it? But, it's, it's the best bit. It's.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah, it's not sexy. And it's also, it feels
Speaker:like it's more work, isn't it? Because you want to be able
Speaker:to order something online, it turns
Speaker:up, you take your shot of it, right, I'm done, I've ticked the box.
Speaker:Whereas it's actually like plan your
Speaker:breakfast, your lunch, your dinner, your snacks, your, you know, do your
Speaker:food. It's more labour intensive, but it is
Speaker:worth it. interestingly So I have
Speaker:one of the leading, you know, the most popular, I'd
Speaker:say greens brand in my cupboard
Speaker:downstairs and it contains sweetener which I try to
Speaker:avoid because I know I don't process it well. And I
Speaker:was actually quite disappointed because I don't feel like it's
Speaker:that clear in their marketing that
Speaker:it does contain sweetener until it.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yeah, I think the main thing I'd say as well is that like the
Speaker:more you're not preparing your food, the less in control
Speaker:you are of what's going into it as well. And you
Speaker:know like sweeteners are kind of highly debated anyway. Are they good,
Speaker:are they not good? Like da da da. but fundamentally like they are
Speaker:something that a lot of people are sensitive to. And so you go to these
Speaker:powders because you think like great quick fix but you're not in control of the
Speaker:products in there. And actually they can lead to diarrhoea and
Speaker:urgency and bloating and all these unpleasant
Speaker:symptoms that actually, you know, if you just grated half an
Speaker:apple and put it in your porridge in the morning you'd get all the benefits
Speaker:you're after in a tolerable way.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Yeah. And also I don't another
Speaker:again, maybe I should do a whole podcast episodes on
Speaker:greens because I would have thought
Speaker:surely let's get some vitamin D and ever in these
Speaker:given that the advice is that we all supplement. But actually
Speaker:again they don't contain either they don't contain vitamin D
Speaker:or they have less than the recommended daily dose. So I'm like, I
Speaker:feel like they've missed it.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: or they contain like vitamin D2 rather than
Speaker:vitamin D3 as well. You know sometimes they put them in but in like the
Speaker:cheat inactive form as well.
Speaker:>> Charlie: I feel like we could probably talk about that for longer than people
Speaker:want.
Speaker:Let me know guys if you do want a kind of a
Speaker:full greens episode. because I'm
Speaker:sure that I could go down on a full tangent on
Speaker:this. I think that, I mean I feel like I've learned
Speaker:stuff today so thank you so much and hopefully it's been
Speaker:beneficial for people listening about how they
Speaker:can improve their gut health which can have knock on
Speaker:effects for their immune health, their ah, mental health,
Speaker:their skeletal health. And if you have
Speaker:one, had one like kind of takeaway for
Speaker:people, if you could, you know, sum up your
Speaker:one big piece of advice or a little piece of
Speaker:advice, what would it be?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: it would have to be what can I add and where is the colour
Speaker:coming from? So kind of Thinking about what can you add to
Speaker:what you're already having. Think maximalist.
Speaker:And I think it's also about kind of pushing boundaries on
Speaker:flavours that you think go together as well because actually like
Speaker:put some herbs and spices on everything and it goes together really
Speaker:nicely.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Thank you so much. Where can people find you if they
Speaker:have, you know, want to talk more with you and you know, booking a
Speaker:appointment and to discuss their, ah, personal gut
Speaker:health with you?
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Yes. So we're at the Gut Health Clinic, so through
Speaker:Dr. Megan Rossi, we're part of her Gut Health clinic team. You can
Speaker:book in to see us, four of us in clinic.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Brilliant. I will leave the links to that in the show notes. Thank you
Speaker:so much.
Speaker:>> Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker:>> Charlie: Thank you so much for listening. Good luck to everyone running New York
Speaker:Marathon this weekend. Don't forget to say save
Speaker:10% across the Hummer gels and
Speaker:the super natural fuel energy pouches
Speaker:on X Miles with the code cookeatrun at
Speaker:checkout. I'll also leave a link below. You should also
Speaker:see in the show notes a list of some of my favourite real
Speaker:food gels from xmiles and we're going to be talking
Speaker:about some of them in later, episodes. So keep an eye out
Speaker:or just order some and give them a try. I think the best way to find
Speaker:a fuel that works for you is trial and error.
Speaker:Thank you so much for listening to Cook Eat Run, the podcast
Speaker:hosted by me, Charlie Watson, sponsored by X Miles.
Speaker:They are your one stop nutrition shop.
Speaker:Come and find me on social media, therunnerbeans and
Speaker:tell me what you're loving on the podcast. Send me all of your questions
Speaker:and suggestions for future episodes. All the links
Speaker:you need to connect with me are in the show notes.
Speaker:Lastly, please rate the Cook Eat Run podcast.
Speaker:It really means a lot to see your ratings and reviews.
Speaker:Obviously the five star ones go down very well,
Speaker:but please let me know what you think. It really does make a
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Speaker:amazing running community.
Speaker:See you back here for another episode soon. In the meantime,
Speaker:happy running and don't forget to fuel yourself.
Speaker:Bye.
